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Can an employer take your wages without your consent

18 replies

HulahoopsBBQbeef · 28/03/2022 09:29

Sorry for the title. Unsure how to title it but posting on behalf of a relative.
Relative started work for a nationally known company post university. Part of the role involved one year post registration training and on joining signed a contract agreeing to do one year post passing post graduate exams. These exams happen within a year of starting work so realistically would’ve been completed within 2 years so been until summer 2021 at the latest. Due to covid all examinations were cancelled for over 18 months. During this time relative was made to work like a fully registered professional and given full duties despite not formally passing this stage. Essentially work conditions were toxic and there were multiple episodes of discriminatory behavior with racist language being used. I encouraged the relative to report these incidents but being young and straight out of university, relative did not want to rock the boat.
At the end of their tether, relative handed in notice 3 months ago. They’ve now turned around and said because he passed the delayed examination last year and a full year hasn’t passed, he owes them over three grand.
I encouraged relative to speak to a Union about this but before he even had a chance, they’ve sent a pay slip with no wages for the last month. They’ve taken the wages without informing him that this is what will happen in lieu of pay.
My question isn’t about the legalities of the contract. My question is can they legally take this money without even letting the employee know and how would you pursue this?

OP posts:
WitchDancer · 28/03/2022 09:39

No they can't take wages without specific consent. I would be double checking all contracts of employment and the payment regarding the training to see if there is anything in there:

a) about deductions of wages

b) regarding paying back training costs

HulahoopsBBQbeef · 28/03/2022 10:04

Thank you @WitchDancer that’s really helpful. Yes we need to go through the contract clearly and maybe with guidance from a professional.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 28/03/2022 10:14

He needs to double check the contract and see what he actually agreed to.

ChicCroissant · 28/03/2022 10:20

I would go through the contract carefully because it is entirely standard for companies to reclaim the cost of training if the employee leaves in a set period, and I know my own current contract says that if I owe money (eg for holidays) they will take it out of my final salary payment if I have not paid it before I go.

What arrangements were made by your relative to repay the sum owing to the company before he left?

ErinAoife · 28/03/2022 10:47

In my work, you had to repay the cost of training if you don't stay a year after you get your exams

worriedatthistime · 28/03/2022 11:03

Totally depends on the contract

prh47bridge · 28/03/2022 11:32

I'm afraid WitchDancer is wrong. Whether they can take this money depends on the contract. If it specifically allows for this deduction, they are in the clear. If it doesn't, they need your relative's agreement to them taking this money.

ChuckBerrysBoots · 28/03/2022 11:39

I think they still have to pay at least minimum wage to cover the hours your relative worked. Whether they can deduct above minimum wage is something they might need to seek advice about.

prh47bridge · 28/03/2022 12:09

@ChuckBerrysBoots

I think they still have to pay at least minimum wage to cover the hours your relative worked. Whether they can deduct above minimum wage is something they might need to seek advice about.
They can leave you below minimum wage under some situations such as if the deduction is for something you have done for which your contract says you are liable, or repayment of a loan.
CrowUpNorth · 28/03/2022 12:14

I'd definitely speak to my union - even if it is in the contract, I'd argue that being forced out by work's failure to address racism / toxic environment would make enforcing that unreasonable (and not being able to sit the exams for so long). Would it win in court? Who knows. Would it be in everyone's interest to accept a settlement agreement that writes off the fees, almost certainly. In the meantime make sure he has documented everything he can about why he is leaving and if he hasn't already left raise a grievance. £3k is worth complaining about!

There are strict timescales around employment claims for unlawful deduction of wages and the employer will know that (and have no reason to settle if missed) so time is definitely of the essence!

Tiger401 · 28/03/2022 12:17

Yes - they can deduct the wages if it is within the contract.

Read the contract carefully - post it on here if you can OP.

However, I would raise a grievance NOW about the racist language, they may 'as a gesture' not make you pay them if you continue to say about the bullying and harassing behaviour.

Keep any evidence of wrongdoing by the company - i.e. texts that show racism etc.

CrowUpNorth · 28/03/2022 12:18

It would be generally poor practice not to discuss with a leaving employee what deductions will be made in their final pay, e.g. taken more holidays than now entitled to.

HermioneWeasley · 28/03/2022 14:05

He might have signed a separate training agreement which allows them to deduct costs. He needs to speak to them about on what basis they think they can make a deduction from wages.

ChoiceMummy · 28/03/2022 16:46

@HulahoopsBBQbeef

Sorry for the title. Unsure how to title it but posting on behalf of a relative. Relative started work for a nationally known company post university. Part of the role involved one year post registration training and on joining signed a contract agreeing to do one year post passing post graduate exams. These exams happen within a year of starting work so realistically would’ve been completed within 2 years so been until summer 2021 at the latest. Due to covid all examinations were cancelled for over 18 months. During this time relative was made to work like a fully registered professional and given full duties despite not formally passing this stage. Essentially work conditions were toxic and there were multiple episodes of discriminatory behavior with racist language being used. I encouraged the relative to report these incidents but being young and straight out of university, relative did not want to rock the boat. At the end of their tether, relative handed in notice 3 months ago. They’ve now turned around and said because he passed the delayed examination last year and a full year hasn’t passed, he owes them over three grand. I encouraged relative to speak to a Union about this but before he even had a chance, they’ve sent a pay slip with no wages for the last month. They’ve taken the wages without informing him that this is what will happen in lieu of pay. My question isn’t about the legalities of the contract. My question is can they legally take this money without even letting the employee know and how would you pursue this?
Yes it's legal and what he signed up to. Covid in that context is irrelevant.

We did the same with training contracts like this, except our tie in was 3 years!

WitchDancer · 28/03/2022 17:05

@prh47bridge

I'm afraid WitchDancer is wrong. Whether they can take this money depends on the contract. If it specifically allows for this deduction, they are in the clear. If it doesn't, they need your relative's agreement to them taking this money.
Actually I said they can't deduct without specific consent. I think you maybe misread what I wrote.
HulahoopsBBQbeef · 28/03/2022 18:44

Thank you to all the really helpful replies. We need to go through the contract in detail and I will try and post it when I get hold of it.
It’s an interesting point about raising a grievance. I wasn’t sure whether that could be done retrospectively. I know that they now regret not raising these issues at the time but as they were training, they didn’t want to rock the boat.
Thanks again. I will post back once I’ve had a look through the contract

OP posts:
Tiger401 · 29/03/2022 20:38

Hi @HulahoopsBBQbeef you can raise a grievance when you leave. I’ve just been through this and contacted ACAS. You have three months from when the last discriminatory event took place.

They do not have to respond to your grievance but a large company will likely due to reputational risk. If they don’t respond it works in your favour if you do take it further.

Time is of the essence.

FYI I got a settlement agreement - the minute ACAS were contacted and they had my grievance (they followed company policy well here) we agreed an amount. I know I’d have lost at tribunal but I was happy with what I got and they tend to concede If they know there is potential for truth in what your complain about

HesDeadBenYouCanStopNow · 30/03/2022 14:04

I'd be interested to know whether the contract states 1 year post training rather than post exam. It would seem that individuals impacted by covid delayed exams would be disadvantaged

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