Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

Bank holidays and the law

86 replies

takemetomars · 25/03/2022 16:36

Can anyone point me to a source which definitively states the law around workers who do not work on a Monday receiving annual leave in lieu as they do not benefit from the bank holidays?

OP posts:
HunterHearstHelmsley · 25/03/2022 22:25

I don’t work Fridays - any BH that falls on this day I get additional hours added to my holiday leave.

That's unusual. Based on your numbers above, you would have 26.4 days and would need to take off any bank holidays you did work, rather than adding the hours for the days you're not due to work.

Kitkat151 · 25/03/2022 22:30

@HunterHearstHelmsley

I don’t work Fridays - any BH that falls on this day I get additional hours added to my holiday leave.

That's unusual. Based on your numbers above, you would have 26.4 days and would need to take off any bank holidays you did work, rather than adding the hours for the days you're not due to work.

It very normal ....I worked 4 days ...,so if a BH fell on my non working days, I could take 6 hours ( pro rata BH) whenever I wanted ( I’m NHS and my friend is LA and the same applies to her)
HunterHearstHelmsley · 25/03/2022 22:37

@Kitkat151 exactly. It doesn't get added. It's part of your leave entitlement; you don't book it off. Bank holidays aren't special.

I'm third sector, my friend works for a supermarket and the same applies to her.

Change123today · 25/03/2022 22:38

@HunterHearstHelmsley

I think it’s because we are paid for all BH days but I don’t work Fridays so would miss out on the paid BH days that fall on a Friday - so they give me the 1 or two days extra.

In my company before I worked PT but the AL/BH all added up together and the BH days where removed as we went through the year - it was 28 days (or something) including BH. So I didn’t get any time extra as it was already given.

It’s dependent on what is written in the contract I think.
It’s confusing - and I was surprised to be given the extra days leave!

RainbowMum11 · 25/03/2022 23:56

Kind of depends on what is in your respective contracts - leave entitlement + public holidays vs leave entitlement inc public holidays.
Also though, the law that requires part time workers to be treated no less favourably than full time workers (link posted above).
Think about if you worked the same number of hours but in a different pattern, should it be legal for someone working a different at term of days to have more paid leave than you?

MafaldaHopkirk · 26/03/2022 00:31

The way I find it easiest to make sense is to look at total amount of holidays, rather than treating bank holidays separately.

So worker A gets 5.6 weeks plus 9 BH (this year) = 37 total days. All 9 BH fall on their normal working days so that needs to be deducted from the 37 days, leaving 28 days to be booked whenever they like.

Worker B (ensuring they are treated no less favourably than worker A) gets 2/5 x 37 days = 14.8 days (rounded up to 15 days). If they work Thurs and Fri, then there are 2 BH in 2022 which fall on a normal working day, which need to be deducted from the total, leaving 13 days to be booked whenever they like.

(If worked B worked Mon and Tues, there are 6 BH in 2022 on their normal working days, which leaves 9 days to be booked whenever they like. They get the same time off as the Thurs/Fri worker, it's just they have less choice about when to take that time off).

Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 05:56

@Newjobformoremoney

Sorry I have assume worker a is full time and worker b is part time
No both part time, same number of hours but we work on different days
OP posts:
Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 05:59

@TroysMammy

I brought this up in work a couple of months ago as I work Wednesday, Thursday and Friday and colleague works Monday, Tuesday,Wednesday. We get the same amount of holidays but she also has Bank Holiday Mondays off. So she has more working days off than I do. Even though I have the Monday off anyway (unpaid). There was hell to pay and apparently I'm wrong and she's right. We are having a new Manager soon so I'm biding my time especially as in 2023 only one Bank Holiday is on a Friday and the other 7 on Mondays and Tuesdays.
This is how it works at my place of employment and countless others I have worked in. I work in General Practice. They are all run as small businesses
OP posts:
Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 06:06

And this is why, given a choice, I always pick a Monday

OP posts:
Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 06:07

How are they all getting away with this??

OP posts:
Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 06:36

[quote FitAt50]What's you actual question? worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/hours-and-holidays/holidays/i-dont-work-mondays-will-i-miss-out-bank-holidays#:~:text=t%20work%20Mondays.-,Will%20I%20miss%20out%20on%20bank%20holidays%3F,of%20your%20normal%20working%20days.[/quote]
Yes, I have seen this

OP posts:
RicStar · 26/03/2022 06:39

OP do these two employees work for the same organisation? One full and one part time? Or do they work for different organisations? If they work in different places then it is possible that the full time leave allowance is different in one place it is plus bank holidays, and another minimum is inclusive of bank holidays, which would make the part time answer in terms of number of days different but the principle is the same a part time worker is pro rata full time equivalent of total leave which days bank holidays fall etc should not impact the total leave calculation just the amount of choice.

cptartapp · 26/03/2022 07:09

@cptartapp

I work 3 days a week (not Mondays) so get 3/5 of the number of bank holidays that year. Those BH that fall on one of my working days that year get deducted as I have to take them. My 3 day a week colleague does work Mondays. She also gets 3/5 bank holidays but usually ends up with more deducted as most BH fall on a Monday. So less choice over the year.
See my original response. I also work in general practice and my colleague and I each work 20 hours across different days. As most BH fall on a Monday and I am on a day off then anyway, that's why I would choose NEVER to work a Monday, as I would have hours in lieu of these days to choose whenever I wanted. Far more choice over the year.
autienotnaughty · 26/03/2022 07:32

If worker a gets a day off due to it being their working day it should come off their 28 day (pro rata) holiday entitlement. So they are actually worse off as part of their holiday is being dictated to be on a certain day. If they are getting a free day off above holiday entitlement which worker b isn't then yes that's unlawful.

I'm guess you are worker b. You need to find out if bh are coming off their entitlement. It probably is.

autienotnaughty · 26/03/2022 07:34

Sorry missed your last post! Yes this is wrong.

autienotnaughty · 26/03/2022 07:43

I've always worked for la so they have standard hols, 28 days plus bh. It's actually better to not work Mondays when part time because you end up owing time back. Your getting a full 7.5 hour paid day off but you don't work a 37 hour week. Bh entitlement should be the working week divided by 5. I don't understand why your company would massively overpay one person and undercut another.

TroysMammy · 26/03/2022 07:44

@takemetomars I work in a GP surgery too but a friend and former colleague who now works in another surgery says my workplace is wrong.

Harridan1981 · 26/03/2022 08:26

Everywhere I have worked has prorata-ed bank hols and added them to overall allowance

Lougle · 26/03/2022 08:42

It doesn't depend on the wording of the contract. The law states that part time workers should not receive unfavorable treatment. If you get 5.6 weeks AL + BH, so should worker B. Worker B should have her bank holiday hours added to her AL.

TroysMammy · 26/03/2022 09:22

This is my understanding, I work Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 3 days week annual entitlement 14 days holiday. Pro data bank holidays 3. This year 9 bank holidays, 1 on a Thursday, 2 on a Friday therefore 14 days holiday to be booked. 6 Bank holidays on a Monday
and Tuesday, not working days therefore not paid.

Colleague working Monday, Tuesday Wednesday, 3 days a week annual entitlement 14 days holiday and pro rata 3 days bank holiday. This year 1 bank holiday on a Thursday and 2 on a Friday, not a working day, don't get paid. Out of remaining 6 days bank holiday, take off 3 as they are the pro rata entitlement which leaves 3 days bank holiday left. It's these 3 working paid days off that colleague is also having which means in effect this colleague gets 17 days paid holiday and 3 days pro rata bank holidays totalling 20 working days off.

Whereas I get 17 paid days off a year.

In 2023 only one Bank Holiday is on a Friday so I will still have 17 days off but colleague will have 14 days holiday, 3 days pro rata bank holidays and 4 extra paid working days off so will have 21 working days off and I will have 17. No it's not fair.

Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 10:50

Thank you to all who have posted.
As previously stated, I am worker A so I am the one benefitting from this arrangement.
I will let my colleague know that she should have BH pro rata. She thinks this is built into her contract but is convinced it's not being calculated properly. It's her fight but I thought I would try to give her some ammunition.
I did not think that the Practice had to do this, most of them don't!

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 26/03/2022 12:45

Are there any full timers at your practise as it will strengthen her case if she can compare her entitlement as a part timer against a full timer.

Original poster
takemetomars · 26/03/2022 13:51

@Comefromaway

Are there any full timers at your practise as it will strengthen her case if she can compare her entitlement as a part timer against a full timer.
No, we are all part time
OP posts:
juneybean · 26/03/2022 14:01

My contract says 25 plus bank holidays. But in previous jobs it's been written 5.6 weeks including bank holidays. So it really depends what it says. if the latter, then you lose out as your entitlement will be used up on bank holidays with them often falling on a Monday.

dementedpixie · 26/03/2022 14:05

Worker A should get any bank holidays that fall on their working day deducted from their entitlement.

If you are getting bank holidays on top of the 5.6 weeks then worker B should get a pro rata amount of those extra bank holidays too

Swipe left for the next trending thread