Employee consistently late

[lou7575]

Male employee consistently late by 5-10 minutes nearly everyday. The excuse is about getting the children ready for school etc...he has 4 children between 1 and 9 years so I understand this is probably very hectic however his wife doesn't work, never has, and is a stay at home mum and does the school run etc normally. Other employees have commented as everyone else manages to get here on time. Myself and other manager have mentioned this to the employee however he really doesn't seem to care. Not sure if we are being unreasonable by giving written warning etc but we have tried to be understanding of the situation. Any advice or past experience in similar situations?

[quote lou7575]@godmum56 probably because I am an empath and really just want a nice, happy place for people to work and I understand people have issues and commitments. I know at the end of the day, it's all about the business, but I still try to be understanding. [/quote]
if I was the rest of the team, CF's behaviour would NOT be making me happy. Your job as a manager is making the workplace a fair and happy place for all the staff and not just the piss takers.

[quote lou7575]@godmum56 probably because I am an empath and really just want a nice, happy place for people to work and I understand people have issues and commitments. I know at the end of the day, it's all about the business, but I still try to be understanding. [/quote]
If you let employees walk all over you then you won’t have a business, those you do value will leave and you’ll be left with a load of piss takers thinking they can do what they want.

[quote lou7575]@godmum56 probably because I am an empath and really just want a nice, happy place for people to work and I understand people have issues and commitments. I know at the end of the day, it's all about the business, but I still try to be understanding. [/quote]
Well stop being one at work and be a manager/Director
No need to be a Dick but this man is taking the piss, probably due to your willingness to overlook it in favour of making your company a “happy place”
He is disrespecting you and your position

[quote lou7575]@godmum56 probably because I am an empath and really just want a nice, happy place for people to work and I understand people have issues and commitments. I know at the end of the day, it's all about the business, but I still try to be understanding. [/quote]
Yes, agree with a PP. This is great and makes you a good manager... but you have to be careful you aren''t only being a good manager FOR HIM. This would be especially true if your other employees are women because most of us have been in that situation, "I KILL Myself to be on time every day even though I'm doing it all alone etc etc , but the man swans in late because he's done the school run and everyone is telling him how great he is for helping his wife"

probably because I am an empath and really just want a nice, happy place for people to work and I understand people have issues and commitments.

In that care I don't think you should be the one making this decision. Surely it's Commander Riker or Captain Picard's job?

Giving him preferential treatment will cause ill feeling and poor morale with everyone else. He signed a contract stating he would work those hours.

He has not approached you saying he is having difficulty fullfilling that, he has instead opted to do as he pleases (probably as he is not being challenged). This is disrespectful. No need to be rude or harsh but you need to start the ball rolling in letting him know it is not acceptable.

thank goodness for common sense. I was a manager in the NHS and my husband was a senior manager in a large multinational. Both us us were involved in disciplinary processes more than once and its always horrible. Nobody I have ever worked with bounces in to the office and goes "Yay its the day I get to do a disciplinary"
Being an ickle bunny rabbit empath who wants all the employees to be happy in fuzzy fairlyland is not an excuse and doesn't cut it

[quote lou7575]@Franca123 when customers may be waiting to speak to him etc or colleagues are working on jobs together then yes it does. His wife will often FaceTime/ring him several times during the day too, not just at lunch break etc. [/quote]
Wow, he's taking the piss. Let all staff know they need to be at their work station not walking through the door at their start time, record any lateness and discuss with him every time he is late.

He needs to know what standards of behaviour are expected, he should know but you'd be surprised what some people think they can get away with.

@Ozanj

Before you tackle the lateness issue ask yourself how much it would cost (in time and money) to hire and train his replacement. Because the minute you have this chat you may make him realise that he needs an employer who is more family friendly & he may be out like a shot. So many inflexible employers are losing talent and unable to fill it because people will not stand to be treated like crap any more & because there’s a lot more options.

To be treated like crap anymore? 😂 This man works 4hrs less a month than his colleagues, but still gets paid the same. How is that fair ffs.

@Ozanj

Before you tackle the lateness issue ask yourself how much it would cost (in time and money) to hire and train his replacement. Because the minute you have this chat you may make him realise that he needs an employer who is more family friendly & he may be out like a shot. So many inflexible employers are losing talent and unable to fill it because people will not stand to be treated like crap any more & because there’s a lot more options.

If your idea of talent is turning up consistently late and spending working hours facetiming the wife then I dread to think what your idea of a pointless employee is. I've worked with people like him and trust me his other colleagues won't be sorry if he does decide to leave.

I mean, it depends, doesn’t it. Do you ever expect your employees to work to the job, not the clock? Do they? It has to work both ways. Can’t he start at 9:10 and work till 5:10? Does it really matter that much? I realise you’re a team, and everyone should pull their weight, and some jobs are time crucial, but it often seems to me that this sort of thing is imposed for the sake of managing people, rather than the actual good of the business. (I’m self employed, so no axe to grind)

Would you allow a mum more flexibility? I’m always saying we can’t realistically (or reasonably) expect mothers to work like fathers until fathers parent like mothers, and this seems a pretty concrete example of that.

I would bet even if you allowed him to start at 9:10 he would then arrive at 9:20. If you offer him any leeway it has to be the same for everyone and that could lead to chaos. A one off request ( ie. our baby has a doctor's appointment at 9:00 so I would need to do the school run before coming in, is that ok? ) is very different to taking the time each day without offering a good or any reason.

@Franca123

Does it matter if he's five or ten minutes late to the work that needs to get done? That's a long toilet break for some people so does it even out across the day? Does he get the work done? For the team I manage and the work we do, I wouldn't care less. Years ago I was consistently 30mins late or so but I got so much work done and ran my team so well, no one ever said a word about it. I would have been pissed off if they had.

In many work places, yes it does matter.

Timetables should be respected. Buses run on time. Clients are seen by appointment and if the first starts late, every other appointment runs late, inconveniencing every customer and embarrassing other work colleagues who get the complaints and have to apologise/ rush.

I used to work with someone who was late every single day. She had no children but lived a good distance from the office (Denton to Altrincham). She had a verbal warning in which it was agreed she could change her hours. So instead of 8-4 (but actually 8.45 when she would eventually get there), she did 10-6. This helped the office because somome was now covering the phones for emergencies til 6.

2 months later plus a written warning because she was still being late, 10.30 starts, she got fired. She'd just bought a house, she broke down in the office and sobbed uncontrollably. The management team were devastated, they didn't want to let her go but she just couldn't get to work on time. I ended up lodging with her to help out with the bills, she was chaotic (but truly lovely person) and any kind of event we had to lie and tell her it was starting 2 hours earlier than it was, or she wouldn't be able to get out on timem

20+ years down the line I'm still friends with her. About 5 years ago she was diagnosed with Autism and has since been diagnosed with ADHD. I often wonder if it had been known about and understood, a different method of support could have been put in place and helped her organise her morning routine. Probably not, but in todays more understanding age, maybe it is something that could be considered in your specific situation (again, it probably isn't that, but you had asked for ideas)

[quote Siepie]@VodselForDinner haha yes, I was just wondering how much overlap there is between the posters who don't think people need to get to work on time, and the posters on threads about call centre queues. Imagine someone in customer service saying "yes I know we say the helpline opens at 9am, but none of us really like getting up that early" [/quote]
Exactly! I cannot be late, or take 33 mins of lunch instead of 30
Well I can be late but once a month only or you lose your bonus

I work in a supermarket. Have to be on time or else. As a one off if I’d overslept etc (start at 5am) I’d expect my manager to have a word and I’d make the time up at the end of my shift. If it happened again I would face a disciplinary.

This wouldn't be a problem at my place, neither is leaving early, taking a long lunch or taking personal phone calls. Mainly because we are a tech company with clients in US so it doesn't impact customers at all. As long as work gets done and customers aren't impacted then they don't mind. As soon as one of those things isn't happening then there is a problem and it's taken seriously.

If he is impacting your customers by being late or delaying results, or his work is being impacted (ie not completed on time, not as thorough as it should be) then you definitely have a problem.

It's easier to approach the situation with hard, cold facts rather than general comments or complaints.

Before you give a written warning you have to do a disciplinary. You can't just decide without going through due process. You need to follow this step by step www.acas.org.uk/disciplinary-and-grievance-procedures. Also for daytime use for personal time facetime you should have a policy in place for this. Sounds like you need to get your HR sorted out first of all.

@Ozanj

Before you tackle the lateness issue ask yourself how much it would cost (in time and money) to hire and train his replacement. Because the minute you have this chat you may make him realise that he needs an employer who is more family friendly & he may be out like a shot. So many inflexible employers are losing talent and unable to fill it because people will not stand to be treated like crap any more & because there’s a lot more options.

I take you don’t mind if you have go wait 10 extra min every day for nursery or school to open, for the bus to come or any customer service. For the cashier to come to the register you’d be fine to wait 10 minutes every time you went shopping. Because that would just be ’family friendly’ too, right?

I really am trying to fight his corner and be understanding but he lives less than 20 minutes away and drives so commuting etc isn't an issue as in relying on public transport

well if he's routinely 10 minutes late, he needs to get up 10 minutes earlier

@lou7575

Thanks all, these have been really helpful!

We don't have a HR department, we're a very small team of less than ten including myself and the other Director/manager. I really am trying to fight his corner and be understanding but he lives less than 20 minutes away and drives so commuting etc isn't an issue as in relying on public transport.

@lou7575 - this would piss me off even more, living so near and driving!

One job I worked in I knew sometimes I might be late so I had 2 options of trains, I’ve just got me in on time, the earlier one got me in 29-30 mins earlier so I could do shopping. But I also had to buy milk, coffee, collect DX post etc so I could tag that onto my time, though I often went to supermarket to get tea etc after I was in. DX was super important to be in on time so boss could work with it.

I used to have a close friend who was always late with friends but never work. Most people I know even with autism etc make extra efforts to factor in time keeping and this man has got away with it so long that he thinks he’s untouchable. I really would be maybe having a word first maybe privately saying that unless his timekeeping improves and personal phone calls cease that its impacting on the team and you’ll have no option but to consider going down the HR route. I presume you outsource HR?

Then just go down the warnings route. If he doesn’t improve maybe he’s best off applying to a local council where they’ll do flexi time etc.

I had a member of staff like this and it was infuriating - it was completely disrespectful to the organisation, to me and to his colleagues, although in his case it was because the bus was late every day. It wasn’t - he was choosing to get a later bus knowing it didn’t get in till after 9, rather than getting the earlier one which got him in before 9 and having a coffee before starting. I spoke to him informally and when that didn’t work I told him that we could adjust his hours from 9-5 until 9.10-5.10. He didn’t like that idea so managed to get himself to work on time, just like the rest of us.

Why not just change his start time or introduce flexible working?

Oh god I'm often five minutes later for work -but I rarely take my full lunch break and rarely finish on time. To me late is well over five minutes late. I hope people don't think this about me !

@MajorCarolDanvers

Why not just change his start time or introduce flexible working?

Because she wants him in on time? And doesn’t want flexible working.

What does she do about his personal mobile FaceTime calls then?

He sounds like a CFer chancer who’s got away with a lot for too long. If she got rid of him she’d probably get a better worker.