Progression routes in nursing?

[mysterymysteryy]

Hi, I’m a third year student adult nurse in London and I was wondering if progression is faster in managerial roles than clinical roles, and if that is the case, why? My mum also works in the NHS and she always tells me I should never become a ward manager and when I try to find out the reasonings behind it she just says there is too much politics around it.. but isn’t that the same for every job? or the role of a ward manager is much more intense?

You are not clear about why you are asking this.

Are you wanting to be promoted quickly and want to know the quickest route?

You haven’t yet qualified, gained any experience and you are looking at promotion before you are even off the starting blocks.

You will need experience, a sound CV full of post grad courses, and you will need to do what the rest of us have to do, work your arse off to even be considered for an interview to be promoted.

In the interim, both managerial and clinical routes to go up the grades comes with a mountain size pile of shit.
Especially now.
It is tougher than ever.
Ward management is probably the most challenging and life sucking job there is.
Line managing over 100 people who are exhausted, beaten down, leaving in droves and with no replacements to make the situation even worse, constrained and bound by policy, procedures and rules makes the job impossible.

It’s a shit show.

I’m curious because alot of students around me are talking about progressing quickly and getting a masters as soon as they are done with the undergraduate degree, most are thinking about advanced clinical practice. I think that’s not possible because you need a few years experience, right? So in a way I do feel behind because I’m not thinking about it right now but my family are struggling immensely so I do feel a little inclined to be able to progress quickly.

@Diditopknot

In the interim, both managerial and clinical routes to go up the grades comes with a mountain size pile of shit. Especially now. It is tougher than ever. Ward management is probably the most challenging and life sucking job there is. Line managing over 100 people who are exhausted, beaten down, leaving in droves and with no replacements to make the situation even worse, constrained and bound by policy, procedures and rules makes the job impossible.

It’s a shit show.

Oh. I didn’t know the situation was this dire.

I'd definitely go up the clinical specialist route.
But realistically you need to get your preceptorship, get a few years under your belt before you even think about a B6.

I’m just going in to my second year of my nursing degree and wouldn’t go for band 6 for all the tea in china, where I am there isn’t much in the money between top of band 5 and starting band 6.

I would be interested in specialising, I have a real interest in wounds and may specialise in that one day but need to get experience under my belt first

When you qualify you need to get some ward experience, you will find something that you are particularly interested in and start as a band 5. You may be employed within a directorate so could get moved onto other wards if they need you, you may also find yourself left on your own quite a bit as there are so many shortages. Band 6 jobs and upwards are not like they used to be, they are more management skills than clinical knowledge in a particular area. You can be a band 7 on a ward where you have little of no experience of that specialism but are good with audits, managing people, endless meetings and paperwork but with very little patient contact. You become rent a manager, moved to failing wards, follow up complaints and disciplinary meetings. In the olden days a staff nurse gained specialist knowledge, went on relevant courses, became a senior staff nurse then sister/charge nurse., knew everything about that specialism, organises teaching but its very different now., why are your friends thinking about advanced practice at such an early stage.

One issue with specialist posts is that there may not be many in the specific area you end up in so you’re effectively waiting for the right job to come up. Management is more transferable so you might find more job opportunities come up. If you have access to more than one hospital or a really massive one that would help.

If you’re interested in progression one way to find out what it looks like is to join LinkedIn and check out the CV’s of senior nurses. There are lots of ways to move up the ranks in nursing, don’t forget research and education as alternatives including moving out of the nhs into becoming a lecturer.

I wish I’d thought more about progression earlier in my career but as soon as I was settled enough to think about progressing I started having children instead. So I think it’s a good thing you’re thinking about where you might end up. It would do no harm at all to get in touch with people already in the kinds of post you fancy in the future and asking how they ended up there.

@RonaCoaster

One issue with specialist posts is that there may not be many in the specific area you end up in so you’re effectively waiting for the right job to come up. Management is more transferable so you might find more job opportunities come up. If you have access to more than one hospital or a really massive one that would help.

If you’re interested in progression one way to find out what it looks like is to join LinkedIn and check out the CV’s of senior nurses. There are lots of ways to move up the ranks in nursing, don’t forget research and education as alternatives including moving out of the nhs into becoming a lecturer.

I wish I’d thought more about progression earlier in my career but as soon as I was settled enough to think about progressing I started having children instead. So I think it’s a good thing you’re thinking about where you might end up. It would do no harm at all to get in touch with people already in the kinds of post you fancy in the future and asking how they ended up there.

Oh I’ve heard about research, it does seem quite interesting but I’ve heard that its for older nurses who are close to retirement.. Is that really true? And thank you for the advice, I’ll definitely go on Linkedin to find out some more information

Specialism seems to get fastest way to progress. I have a few friends that have quickly got to band 7 by specialising. One in respiratory nursing and 2 in diabetes nursing.
My friend who trained with me did his preceptorship on general medicine and stayed for 2 years as a band 5 then band 6 before going for the band 7 diabetes specialist nurse role. He did the band 7 role for 9 years and is now a Matron in general medicine.
I stayed on the wards as a band 5 and have no regrets. I would never want to get into management. I moved to a different speciality a year ago so I can progress to band 6 but band 6 is not management on my ward, it's purely skill based.

Any type of managerial role in the NHS comes with an extra shitload of responsibility and minimal extra pay. If you look at the job descriptions and pay banding for band 5/6 and 6/7 you will see what I mean.

It's good to have a career path in mind if you have an interest in a particular clinical specialty, so if you are interested in cardiology say, or perioperative care then look for a job in a related area when you qualify. You will need to build up some experience though before a trust will put you through specialist courses.

I definitely know nurses that have gone from band 5 to band 7 as clinical specialists, following post-grad study.

Listen to your mother or spend your days biting your own neck.
Do you know that saying?
Management and clinical are two different beasts.

Clinical experience has very little to do with management experience. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.
In your 20’s you can come off a night shift, go clubbing the following night and rock up after a night out and pull a 12h shift. In your 40’s , it takes you 3 days to recuperate after a night shift.
Having a family is another full time job on top of your job.

What I’m saying is you have to be careful if you don’t want to lose yourself.

In terms of progression, if you’re in a big teaching hospital, you’ll progress faster than if you’re in a 500 bed hospital in a small town (It tends to be dead man’s shoes)
Any extra training tends to be in your own time (ie post grad), more training means more responsibility but not more money.

Just listen to your mother, she’s trying to make it easier for you.

@AlaskaThunderfuckHiiiiiiiii

I’m just going in to my second year of my nursing degree and wouldn’t go for band 6 for all the tea in china, where I am there isn’t much in the money between top of band 5 and starting band 6.

I would be interested in specialising, I have a real interest in wounds and may specialise in that one day but need to get experience under my belt first

Go into general practice. It's basically a band 6 role (pay varies hugely but is improving due to demand) and lots of extra courses to do. Most areas now offer supported preceptorship and post graduate courses aimed at those new to general practice. After 3 years you can apply for Msc in advanced practice (depending on business need and availability of support) or go into tissue viability if you like wounds. There's also leadership roles.

I went directly into general practice on qualifying 2.5 years ago. I'm now on equivalent of band 6 pay and have an extra role alongside that pays me more and gives me some leadership/project management experience.

I love my job but I would rather work in a supermarket for less than go and work on a ward.

Thank you so much for your responses everyone! To be frank going down the clinical route does seem more interesting and I have a really keen interest in haematology (I’m having the time of my life on placement rn even though I’m knackered haha) so I’ll probably stick to that.