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Original poster

DH disciplinary over covid isolation

52 replies

lucylucyapplejuicy · 04/02/2022 13:59

Hi looking for any advice here as feeling rather stressed for my DH.

DH and DD tested positive for covid last week they were told isolation would be up this Saturday unless they are testing negative (still testing positive today) DH work were ringing from Monday asking when he will be back in and on the Tuesday his manager told him to stop testing as he needs to be in work on Friday and over the weekend. DH reluctantly agrees that if he was ok then he would. I also tested Positive late last week but was fine for days, until Wednesday since when I have barely left the bed unless it was to be sick, I've had quite bad symptoms and haven't been able to keep food down for days, temp of 39+ and extremely bad shivers/aches. I told DH I really didn't think I'm up to taking care of the kids as I feel honestly awful. My DH himself still looks and feels pretty awful too. He contacted his boss yesterday to say he will not be able to work as I am ill, he needs to watch the kids and he himself still doesn't feel up to it. His boss has today rang and said they will need a formal meeting next week and that he's caused so much trouble with this, I am a SAHM so why can't I watch my kids or sort family to (family obviously reluctant as kids positive too!) the clients aren't happy with him etc etc. It wasn't a very nice phone call and got very heated. I'm just cross as they have put so much pressure on him to return when they knew he should still be isolating. He's feeling so stressed and anxious now that he said he will call the doctor next week as he has
Worked his arse off for them in the past and feels so unappreciated now.

Are they in the wrong? Can they do this?

OP posts:
Comefromaway · 04/02/2022 18:46

@Cakeandcardio

I think there's a lot of silliness over how many days since he's had covid etc. It's not about that. If he's sick, he's sick. Get a sick line from the doctors.
You can self cert for 28 days at the moment. Drs are not giving sick notes for less than that, besides it’s a covid isolation note he needs.
RedRobin100 · 04/02/2022 18:49

@DSGR

He shouldn’t have told them he was taking time to look after you and the kids. He should have said he was still testing positive and couldn’t leave isolation for 10 days. This is what he needs to say at the meeting next week - I was completing the requirement under law and you are putting me under undue pressure to return. I told you I wasn’t feeling well enough and also mentioned my wife and children were also ill, but I didn’t come in as I was following rules and was recovering from Covid
This
Comefromaway · 04/02/2022 18:52

Do as Dysmal suggests then he has a written record of the conversation.

Legally he is protected against dismissal as it would automatically be deemed as unfair

“ It’s an offence for an employer to knowingly allow a person who is required to self-isolate to work anywhere other than where they are self-isolating (normally their home). This applies only when they’re required to self-isolate following a positive test, contacted by NHS Test and Trace or their local authority, or where they are required to quarantine after returning from abroad.

“Employers who dismiss an employee because they are, or have been, self-isolating, may be liable for unfair or automatically unfair dismissal. This will depend on all the circumstances of the case. For example:

it’s unlikely a short period of self-isolation (such as 2 weeks) would in itself make it reasonable to dismiss someone on the grounds the person is not capable of doing their job
it’s against the law for anyone who’s required to self-isolate to attend work, and for their employer to knowingly allow them attend work - this is likely to be relevant when deciding whether it was reasonable to dismiss them for not going into work”

www.gov.uk/guidance/if-you-need-to-self-isolate-or-cannot-attend-work-due-to-coronavirus#dismissal

daisychain01 · 05/02/2022 05:02

@Comefromaway
You can self cert for 28 days at the moment

You could in January, but the rules reverted to the normal 7 days Self Cert from 26 Jan 2022. It was just to relieve pressure on GP practices at the peak of Omicron.

Arucanafeather · 05/02/2022 06:55

I agree with writing the email suggested above. It should help with the immediate situation. Unfortunately, I can see this permanently changing how your DH feels about working there.

DropYourSword · 05/02/2022 07:00

He could ask his work to formally record in a letter or email that they want him to illegally break isolation and attend work when he's still sick.
I can't think that any company would be stupid enough to provide evidence of them bullying an employee into illegal acts.

Cattitudes · 05/02/2022 07:02

Has he been logging his positive lateral flows online? He legally can't break isolation until his ten days are up unless the lft are negative.

PearPickingPorky · 05/02/2022 07:15

@DysmalRadius

Might it be worth him being proactive about it? Could he email in advance of the meeting to say that he is sorry that his absence caused inconvenience and he appreciates that the timing was bad, but he was really uncomfortable being asked to break isolation rules and come back early, particularly as he (and everyone in the household) was still symptomatic.

That way he has offered a 'sorry (but not) apology, covered the real issue (them asking him to break the law), and explained the confusion over his phone call all in one fell swoop that doesn't really leave them with anywhere to go in the meeting.

Great suggestion.

Good luck OP, his manager sounds dreadful.

Catlover77 · 05/02/2022 07:31

How long has he been employed by the company?

ldontWanna · 05/02/2022 07:45

His line should've been
"I'm still positive, not feeling well and my isolation lasts until Saturday ". And repeat.

He messed up saying he'd be in and then cancelling because of childcare issue. But I also understand the pressure he is under when work are pulling at him , especially if he's still trying to prove himself. I've there myself .

They can't discipline him for absences up to and including Saturday. He was required by law to self isolate. They can try have their meeting and throw their weight around ,but legally they have no grounds.

Is your DH in a union? Does his workplace have an HR department? Have him try ring ACAS and ask for advice .

Fairylightsongs · 05/02/2022 07:53

@DropYourSword

He could ask his work to formally record in a letter or email that they want him to illegally break isolation and attend work when he's still sick. I can't think that any company would be stupid enough to provide evidence of them bullying an employee into illegal acts.
But that’s not what the issue. He has told them he can’t come in as he needs to look after his kids, after his isolation period and when he knew how desperate they were to have him back.
DropYourSword · 05/02/2022 08:59

They were asking him to return to work last week @Fairylightsongs, and OP has stated in the first post he still feels unwell.
Yes, he shouldn't have mentioned he needs to look after the kids too, but it absolutely is the issue. They wanted him to return before his isolation period ended, and they want him to return when he's still sick!

Dimondsareforever · 05/02/2022 09:19

As he is still within the 10 days and still testing positive, he can’t go back to work.

Employer can say what they like, but if they are asking him to break the law, by coming in with a positive test, they don’t have a leg to stand on if they try and discipline him! How long has your husband worked there?

Original poster
lucylucyapplejuicy · 05/02/2022 09:20

@Arucanafeather

I agree with writing the email suggested above. It should help with the immediate situation. Unfortunately, I can see this permanently changing how your DH feels about working there.
It absolutely has which is a shame as he has made huge progress for this company including winning contracts and helping make them a lot of money. He really felt that he had a relationship with him manager in particular where he would understand this but the way he was spoken to yesterday has made him realise there is no friendship at all there. It's a shame, I know he made the mistake of saying it was to stay home to watch the kids (which honestly was totally necessary, I lost 10lb in 5 days this week, have broken blood vessels all over my face from being sick and still can't lift my toddler yet) but he did not realise this would result in a disciplinary Sad
OP posts:
Tippexy · 05/02/2022 09:23

If he got a positive test on the Thursday then Day 10 isn’t until Sunday (tomorrow), not today.

Original poster
lucylucyapplejuicy · 05/02/2022 09:25

@ldontWanna

His line should've been "I'm still positive, not feeling well and my isolation lasts until Saturday ". And repeat.

He messed up saying he'd be in and then cancelling because of childcare issue. But I also understand the pressure he is under when work are pulling at him , especially if he's still trying to prove himself. I've there myself .

They can't discipline him for absences up to and including Saturday. He was required by law to self isolate. They can try have their meeting and throw their weight around ,but legally they have no grounds.

Is your DH in a union? Does his workplace have an HR department? Have him try ring ACAS and ask for advice .

You are absolutely right and I did tell him not to be pressured back in as I knew he wasn't well enough or testing negative yet.

He is however a people pleaser and hates to say no to anything relating to work, I think his manager knew this and therefore didn't think it would be an issue to get him back early.

Will definitely contact the union/academy and speak to HR ahead of the meeting next week. Thank you x

OP posts:
Level75 · 05/02/2022 09:34

Has he been employed more than 2 years?
If it was me, I'd be inclined to get in touch in writing (email or text etc) and say that he wasn't comfortable being asked to breach the isolation rules. Arguably that's whistleblowing and if they subsequently treat him badly he can link it to that.
Also ignore what others are saying about him having no right to time off to look after the kids - he does. It's called emergency parental leave.

Lindy2 · 05/02/2022 09:34

Even if he felt completely well he can't leave isolation before day 10 unless he has had 2 negative tests on 2 consecutive days. He is still testing positive and has not reached day 10 of his isolation yet.

It would have been illegal for him to break isolation and return to work. It would be illegal for his employer to ask him to do so.

I would focus on the pure facts and legality of the situation. Not the family situation.

I believe if he still has a temperature then his isolation needs to continue past day 10 until any temperature or vomiting/diarrhoea (if he has those symptoms) have ended. A phone call to his GP would almost certainly result in a sick note being issued without any question.

Comefromaway · 05/02/2022 12:12

@Level75

Has he been employed more than 2 years? If it was me, I'd be inclined to get in touch in writing (email or text etc) and say that he wasn't comfortable being asked to breach the isolation rules. Arguably that's whistleblowing and if they subsequently treat him badly he can link it to that. Also ignore what others are saying about him having no right to time off to look after the kids - he does. It's called emergency parental leave.
The two year rule won’t apply in this case as it’s one of the few things you get protection for from day 1.
HunterHearstHelmsley · 05/02/2022 16:33

@Level75

Has he been employed more than 2 years? If it was me, I'd be inclined to get in touch in writing (email or text etc) and say that he wasn't comfortable being asked to breach the isolation rules. Arguably that's whistleblowing and if they subsequently treat him badly he can link it to that. Also ignore what others are saying about him having no right to time off to look after the kids - he does. It's called emergency parental leave.
I don't think it would be advisable to email about them telling him to break isolation rules, unless he has it in writing that they did.

They'll deny it otherwise and probably use it in disciplinary etc as they don't sound the best place to work.

Fairylightsongs · 05/02/2022 16:35

I’d also not escalate it and write that he wasn’t comfortable breaching Covid, I suspect he could be out if he does.

HermioneWeasley · 06/02/2022 18:32

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”

His boss has behaved terribly. He needs to look for another job

Original poster
lucylucyapplejuicy · 07/02/2022 06:46

@HermioneWeasley

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”

His boss has behaved terribly. He needs to look for another job

Yes exactly this!
OP posts:
vivainsomnia · 07/02/2022 13:46

It doesn't make sense. If he had a positive test on the Thursday, in all likelihood, he started to show symptoms on the Wednesday. So 10 days would be the following Friday. So it was right to expect him to be back the Friday or certainly the Saturday, and you say that your oh agree -reluctantly- (why reluctantly) that he'd be there if well.

Then he calls on that day, not to say that despite the 10 days he is still unwell but because you are. That's not sickness. It could be one day emergency at most.

If that impacted the business, or colleagues of his, then yes, I understand why they would look at a discipline meeting.

Comefromaway · 07/02/2022 13:54

@vivainsomnia

It doesn't make sense. If he had a positive test on the Thursday, in all likelihood, he started to show symptoms on the Wednesday. So 10 days would be the following Friday. So it was right to expect him to be back the Friday or certainly the Saturday, and you say that your oh agree -reluctantly- (why reluctantly) that he'd be there if well.

Then he calls on that day, not to say that despite the 10 days he is still unwell but because you are. That's not sickness. It could be one day emergency at most.

If that impacted the business, or colleagues of his, then yes, I understand why they would look at a discipline meeting.

In all liklihood doesn;t count though. The dh has been told (presumably be Test and Trace) when his isolation is up. They will have asked about when symptoms started etc etc. and the count starts the day after onset of symptoms or positive test.
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