Employer says it will recover apprenticeship costs

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

Just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction.

DH has been put on apprenticeship scheme at work which will end shortly. It’s funded through the apprenticeship levy and cost £15k. He was asked to sign an agreement at the outset which said if he left within a year of it ending he would have to pay back the £15k, decreasing if he stayed for one and then two years. However, the ESFA guidance seems clear employers cannot recover costs from apprentices who leave employment or who do not complete the course. He put this to his employer who said putting him through the apprenticeship cost them in terms of releasing him for his 20% apprenticeship time and it was entitled to recover those costs. If it’s relevant the job pays c£20k and the apprenticeship takes 12-18 months.

DH is job hunting as wanting to take advantage of the current market. The job he is in was never intended to be a long term prospect but was a response to circumstances we found ourselves in during covid. But he’s worried that if he leaves he can be pursued for the 15k which we are not in a position to pay back.

Does anyone know if his employer is correct re: recouping costs or if it is worth him pushing back? Would the next step be to ask for a copy of his t&cs/contract which details this repayment conditions/arrangement?

@Gladioli23 thanks for that, that’s the same extract I’d found, but what I couldn’t work out was whether the levy funding also covers part of the release time (the 20%). It seemed to me reading the email from his HR dept in response to his initial query that they had realised they couldn’t recoup the course fee, so hurriedly were looking for something else to explain why they would claim funds back. The contract specifically refers to course fees, not costs for release time.

www.employinganapprentice.com/apprentices/leaving-an-apprenticeship/

No. Unlike university, you will not have to pay back any money for dropping out of the apprenticeship before completion. In new funding rules, employers are no longer able to ask apprentices to pay back any costs for training, exams or other activities.

This suggests they can't but I'd still get the ESFA to provide advice in writing that he can share with his employer.

With apprenticeships the guidance states that employers cannot recoup any costs from the apprentice, regardless of whether they leave the organisation or not. They would be breaching ESFA regs and could be fined for trying to do so. I work on a programme with approx 300 apprentices and they are very strict about that. In fact many audits are happening at the moment for finances so they are on dodgy ground if they try to recoup costs. An apprentice is not supposed to pay anything towards their training anyway so I am not sure what they are trying to recoup?

so I am not sure what they are trying to recoup?

“its loss as a result of the employee leaving…costs incurred as a result of an early exit… staff costs incurred as a result of the training”

Thanks again all - I think we have some next steps to get some clarity, starting with the ESFA

Also does your DH plan to continue the apprenticeship? If he can find an employer willing to take on the apprenticeship it can be transferred to a new employer if he wanted, they can use the levy to get a large discount and would have the benefit of his new knowledge. This might also help appease old employer? He would need to make sure that he didn’t have a gap of more than 30 days between employers though.

“its loss as a result of the employee leaving…costs incurred as a result of an early exit… staff costs incurred as a result of the training”

Ah I see this seems a bit sneaky to me as if they are using the levy it largely pays for this anyway! Hope your DH gets sorted.

@Brunonononooo he’s due to finish it soon, certainly before the prospect of any new job offer

This is very cheeky of his employer. The whole point of the levy is that funds are set aside in an account that can only be used for apprenticeship funding. If they were to claim it back from your husband the funds would go back into the general business account and there would be so many ways that businesses could abuse the scheme!

IANAL but from my knowledge of the scheme as OP and @Gladioli23 say it is not an enforceable clause.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits in that case I really don’t think they can recoup any costs at all as the ESFA guidance states they can’t even do it during the apprenticeship never mind after they have finished it. Who is the provider, I would take it up with them as they will be able to back up your DH as well on this one. I have had to send some stern emails/phone calls to employers who have tried to do the same thing and none of them ever ended up doing it due to the potential fines they would have received, I work for the provider (a university offering apprenticeships).

I’ll get him to find out @Brunonononooo. I’m going to suggest he send a copy of the email exchanges and contract, redacting the employer details, to ESFA for advice and then go from there.

@Brunonononooo

“its loss as a result of the employee leaving…costs incurred as a result of an early exit… staff costs incurred as a result of the training”

Ah I see this seems a bit sneaky to me as if they are using the levy it largely pays for this anyway! Hope your DH gets sorted.

Remember that the levy is a compulsory tax on businesses so they have basically been forced to buy a load of credits to spend on apprentices and they've spent it on OPs DH. It's not free money for the business.

@HalfShrunkMoreToGo yes that’s true, thanks as I only really see it from the provider side! And I guess therefore the side of the apprentices.

That’s true - him and several others. My employer has previously said the levy fund is a “use it or lose it” situation? As in if people didn’t sign up they lose the funding for that year that they haven’t used, it’s not reimbursed or carried forward - is that correct? (Not to imply my employer doesn’t know what it’s talking about but… )

Levy funds expire after 2 years of being deposited. I work on the apprenticeship provider side but one of our employers mentioned they pay into their levy pot monthly.

A lot of employers are a bit clueless about the rules, even the big ones with hundred of apprentices. One employer I work with is a government ministry and there's a long list of things they've been pulled up on. They thought they'd just sign apprentices up and we'd do the rest. The fact apprentices need to put what they're learning into practice came as a surprise . As did the requirement for 20% off the job training though they were relieved to hear it included modules. You'd think they'd be better informed.

What was the outcome of this in the end @GingerAndTheBiscuits?

Sorry, I didn’t see there were more replies at the time!

He left and they didn’t pursue him for the money, nothing was said about it at all when he was serving his notice or since he left. But he has since found out they have told colleagues who are still there that they have recouped the money from him - I think to discourage them from looking elsewhere in the current climate!

Thread is from January 2022.