Is there ever a way to successfully complain and oust a crap boss?

[Digestiveenzyme]

When I joined the dept I was managed by boss A. He was fine, worked hard and was present most days so if we had issues we could contact him etc.
Boss A employed his mate and within 6 months had promoted him to our supervisor we’ll call him Boss B.
It became very quickly obvious that despite Boss B having a fair bit of experience in our line of work he relies heavily on others for advice, is unbelievably lazy, will not muck in and help us out if we are drowning in work. He will ‘appear’ to be busy but he’s just fannying about, he manipulates the data to make it appear he’s doing work etc. He’s happy to push us women in the team around and is often rude, misogynistic and sarcastic.
Boss A has had personal issues that started just before Covid hit so has largely taken his eye off work it seems and Boss B seems to be taking advantage of that and the fact they are friends. He is super sickly sweet to Boss A and it’s obvious they will cover for each other to the end.
WFH has made all the issues 100 times worse as both bosses are largely unavailable - they’re not even at their desks at home most of the time now - now but Boss B happy to crack the whip if he feels the team aren’t performing enough.
What’s the best way to deal with this? I have never worked for managers like this in all my working life, I don’t see why I should leave as I like the job and my team but we are fed up with it. We don’t feel we can approach above Boss A and whichever way we do it the complaints will sound childish. There is some evidence of the system showing completed work that is in fact undone work by Boss B that could be used but I’ve no doubt a story would be cooked up by them both to explain it.
We feel our hands are tied but have no way to get rid of him! I can’t even think about having to work for these absolute lazy chancers until the end of my days.
Ideas on how to deal with this kind of thing gratefully accepted please?

I have similar problems in my time and finally cracked before Xmas and handed my notice in. It feels good to be leaving.
My manager behaves unprofessionally in so many ways and when I challenged him has basically labelled me as a troublemaker. Since I resigned he has not spoken a word to me. His complete inability to manage effectively baffles me. How do people stay in these jobs. I've thought about going higher to make a complaint but honestly nothing will be done, the management all stick together and are corrupt in my opinion.

@Babyroobs

I have similar problems in my time and finally cracked before Xmas and handed my notice in. It feels good to be leaving. My manager behaves unprofessionally in so many ways and when I challenged him has basically labelled me as a troublemaker. Since I resigned he has not spoken a word to me. His complete inability to manage effectively baffles me. How do people stay in these jobs. I've thought about going higher to make a complaint but honestly nothing will be done, the management all stick together and are corrupt in my opinion.

I should add my team is a complete incompetent mess and vulnerable people rely on support which they do not receive. For a manager to do nothing to address this incompetency is in my opinion unforgiveable. The worst thing is he goes about acting like everything is hunky dorey when the truth is so far removed from that. I've never quite worked with anyone like him. The manager I had before this was a bully but at least she got things done properly and pulled people up when they weren't performing.

Sounds very familiar! The incompetence (he’s full of bluff and bluster and talks a good talk) but that’s about it. Stuff sits in his inbox unanswered (we have a central database) and what he does answer are one liners or he may even just close down something unanswered. Nobody seems to check up on him and now he’s WFH he’s ‘away’ most of the time. What the he’ll he does all day I don’t know but I do know he’s a slimy work and makes sure he appears busy and competent to the right people.
He’s jumped from job to job as I think out there where he’s not protected by his friend (manager) he was always found out and either sacked or left before he was sacked.
I pray for the day it happens here as I’m too young to hand my notice in.

And yes, being the more mature one in the team and less likely to put up with stuff I’ve also been unofficially labelled the troublemaker. He knows I know he’s hopeless, I just wonder what he’ll do about it / me.

@Digestiveenzyme

Sounds very familiar! The incompetence (he’s full of bluff and bluster and talks a good talk) but that’s about it. Stuff sits in his inbox unanswered (we have a central database) and what he does answer are one liners or he may even just close down something unanswered. Nobody seems to check up on him and now he’s WFH he’s ‘away’ most of the time. What the he’ll he does all day I don’t know but I do know he’s a slimy work and makes sure he appears busy and competent to the right people. He’s jumped from job to job as I think out there where he’s not protected by his friend (manager) he was always found out and either sacked or left before he was sacked. I pray for the day it happens here as I’m too young to hand my notice in.

And yes, being the more mature one in the team and less likely to put up with stuff I’ve also been unofficially labelled the troublemaker. He knows I know he’s hopeless, I just wonder what he’ll do about it / me.

My manager managed to go to an all day interview and to move house to another city whilst telling his team he was working from home and to email him with any problems! Some of the rest of the team also went for interviews and had to take a days annual leave.

Ah ours has school runs twice a day, umpteen doctor and dentist appointments, car MOTs, household emergencies and trades calling. We of course have to book annual leave for any of the above.

Doesn’t it make you wonder how these people get away with it??

I think you have my boss, it's defeating to work in this kind of environment. I have a Boss A and Boss B, they are in each other's pockets, and everything is done in an underhand, back of a fav packet, mates rates way. Worst thing is I work in a hugely professional organisation where this kind of behaviour isn't tolerated, but in this tiny team there's no way to call out the behaviours as Boss A will never let his mate down.

Marie, yes, I think we do.

Our organisation is also a very professional, multinational company with strong values where this kind of behaviour is massively frowned upon. We have company values, whistleblowing policies, and it’s just not the culture that is promoted from the very top.
Unfortunately this little chain of hierarchy is far too much in each other’s pockets and all appear to cover for each other. What on earth to do!

You all need to join a union and raise a collective grievance

I've been off sick for weeks now with stress, need to find a way to voice the impact of this set up on a person, but it's really hard to see this going well given Boss A snd B are in cahoots.

I am working my last day tomorrow. My manager has not even properly acknowledged my resignation after five years of working there. I have no idea how to handle my last day. I know he is angry with me for calling him out on a few things but to completely blank me seems a bit harsh ! Any suggestions from anyone most welcome !

I'd just go right in there and lay out a few home truths... let him know you'll miss him too 😂

Is your work address 10 downing street

Hope your last day went reasonably. Are you going to look for something else or take a break for a while?
As I’ve got older, my tolerance for working with people like this has gone down. Life’s too short.

An exit interview can be the most effective and revealing (and listened to!) ways to complain about a ineffective boss to a different department and get it acted upon. You can request one with HR if they don't offer. They'll appreciate it.

@Sloth66

Hope your last day went reasonably. Are you going to look for something else or take a break for a while? As I’ve got older, my tolerance for working with people like this has gone down. Life’s too short.

It went ok. My boss did not send any kind of goodbye message after me working there for almost five years. I emailed him to say goodbye as I didn't want to leave on a bad note. It feels like a relief to be gone. I have some interviews lined up.

@woohoo54

An exit interview can be the most effective and revealing (and listened to!) ways to complain about a ineffective boss to a different department and get it acted upon. You can request one with HR if they don't offer. They'll appreciate it.

Isn't it terrible though that people like this can only be actioned on at exit, when it's too late for a decent employee. Makes my blood boil that people get away with this.

IME these people get away with it because they're seen by senior management as too tricky to get rid of. In my organisation we have a manager who is lazy, incompetent and a manipulative bully. But they have a few mates in high places who are similar and they cover for each other. The decent (though sadly conflict averse) senior managers who could and should act, don't because they don't want the hassle and fear the vindictiveness of the bully's mates.

It's toxic.