Not getting past entry level posts

[MmeSosostris]

Hi,

I am a trained teacher who left to do supply and try and find a role better suited to me and have never real got beyond entry level admin posts. I studied digital tech (some coding/web design, etc) but I have never managed to get at the graduate/career level despite lots of voluntary/outside of work experience.

Today I found out I didn’t get a job I thought I would be good at and I am pleased I got an interview but I didn’t get the post. The head of learning has a marketing/entrepreneurial background.

My degree is in English. I have nearly finished a masters in tech and have lots of project experience to show for it. My current post is tech related and I am doing something quite advanced for a low salary (although it is a charity).

Where am I going wrong? I have had over 20 years of projects, short term contracts and false starts on organisations that have led nowhere. I

Sorry - another thought. If you’re coming to the end of a postgraduate degree have you submitted papers to journals or presented at any conferences? This is a great way to enhance your CV - and the networking can really pay dividends in terms of new opportunities.

I know all too well how easy it is to deliberately put oneself out of the running by reason of age - but actually people are often intrigued and assume one must have masses of unusual, and valuable, experience.

Hi @LiterallyKnowsBest

Yes, I have presented at one conference. Knocked my confidence a lot as not well received.

I am also part of an organisation that provides lectures and resources and have set up meet-ups. I also worked on that organisation’s annual conference.

It’s confidence, I think. Or lack of.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. Have been travelling and brain was a bit scrambled when I wrote the first post. Think it is telling though that I haven’t really integrated all my experience into a clear narrative in my own mind. That obviously shows through. I think I am very conscious of the negative perception/press of teachers.

Charities and museums are stuffed with disillusioned seasoned professionals who wanted a career change to do something more beneficial to society. It's really hard to progress in them because of that and because they lack the funds to train people.

Universities have a similar niche of people who want the prestige.

I'd find a productive, useful but unsexy industry like accounting or construction or something, they'll have more money to train you up and you won't be competing against people who will take a steep pay cut to be giving back etc. A few years of that and you could side step back in to a sector you're keen on.

@EnidFrighten

I think that’s good advice, thanks Enid. It’s a big reason why any progression feels hard to define as I moved around these sectors in the little crevices I could find and often with poor resources and low budget. I know I did well despite the limitations but am just not sure that would be seen the same way in a corporate setting.

Also I am not in my 30s anymore😮

How is your coding? Can’t you switch gears to that and actually get a job in industry and then side step to what you want?

If you can code competently you’ll be beating off employers with a stick. So many engineer vacancies

@Suprima

Going to really try with this. Only basic html/css and some python. Understand the concepts just not come together yet but I will give it another go. Was thinking of c++

Was thinking more UX but just not getting interviews.

I think you’re putting limitations on yourself with not looking in the tech other other industries. If you get into a big company, for someone with a good set of skills and work ethic, there will be a lot of opportunities to progress.

I would focus on bringing your linked in up to date, make sure your cv and covering letter really sell your skills and successes, (an amazing covering letter makes a huge difference in my experience) and do some research into which recruiters are recruiting into the roles you want to do. Then get in touch with them. Remember there are all sorts of industries recruiting for tech jobs, I work in the waste management industry and we employ a host of developers and app support staff.

At the moment you are limiting yourself with your linked in, and with your choices of potential employers. Think wider and bigger companies, and diverse industries. And think confident. Fake it til you make it if you have to. You sound like you have great skills, but perhaps selling your skills and general abilities isn't your strong point. As someone else said, you're much more articulate when you're not talking about yourself! I can totally relate to that, and delivering confidence is a skill to work on too.

Thank you, both. I have gained some confidence with this latest project as I have been on it on my own from the start. Have done everything.

Will sort out LinkedIn and research the companies. And think about how I can word some of the past projects for cv to show my strengths.

Thanks, all. Was feeling a bit defeated after I didn’t get the job but feel more optimistic now.

Lots of recruitment in civil service and arms length bodies who struggle to get good technical bods as salaries can be lower but T&C can be good. Lots opportunities once in to move around. Have you looked at getting work coaching advice? I’ve used an in house one she asked lots of questions which helped me to find my own answers rather than give me the answers. It was a powerful way to work out what I needed to work on. Resilience is a underrated skill that I really had to work on and I’ve also mentored a couple of young women recently who I had to say keep trying, giving up after 1-2 interview failures don’t mean your not good enough it just means you have something else to work on. Women tend to under value themselves all the time.

Also networking in large organisations is key, it’s something I’ve always hated in terms of I can’t ‘work’ a room etc but I’m good at 1:1 stuff and I got told by a director make every interaction a quality one. So really listen to people, show interest remember stuff, like I’ll ask about their cat, or note their birthday or ask about the holiday the small stuff goes along way when you want folk to remember you when a job assignment comes up. But be genuine not faked, if your skill set is bold extrovert then work that parry, but if it’s not then do quality 1:1 interactions find what works for you but use it to self promote why folk would want to choose you instead of someone else with a similar skill set. This comes from really knowing yourself so you can be confident even when undermined or knocked back. Good luck.

OP, If you are targeting any sort of larger tech or IT environment, your LinkedIn profile needs to be up to date, show a consist level of work experience and be clear & confident in what you want to do. Recruiting a new person is expensive & time consuming so companies need to be reasonably confident you know what you want to do.

Look at some of the larger tech companies, training skills are in high demand. You could focus on your mix of teaching and tech skills. There are plenty of companies with projects looking at how to train people on-line, given the shift to more home working.

Good luck.

@MmeSosostris

For example, I read a lot of tech papers, research a lot and can see problems and the solutions and wonder why they haven’t been addressed. So, I do more research and realise why so come up with good working solutions and then put them in place and they do work. So, I know my judgement is good in this area. Just not sure I’m corporate stuff🙂

Honestly, with that mindset, I'd approach a company like Google in London. They may look all hip young things from the outside but they care most about attitude of mind, and that is one they'd appreciate. They also seem fine with quirky CVs because they are looking for slightly oddball people for some of their roles.

Thanks. I think that I had exhausted my soft skills in teaching (and was wrung out) and tech appealed because it didn’t appear to make the same demands however the communication side, I think is where my strengths lie (written and oral). They were just depleted and a bit scrambled after years of difficult and challenging teaching. But I can use that to bolster my cv until I sharpen my coding skills and as pp suggest, take a wider look at what’s out there (still a bit blinkered). CS appeals definitely.

Just got feedback from job interview and it was largely positive. The critical points they made were spot on and I can see why I didn’t get it.

@MmeSosostris, UX would be good but you would probably need some specialised training for that.

Have you thought about becoming an educational technologist at a university? This would fit both your educational and IT backgrounds. It can pay reasonably well, too.

If you are interested in going down this route, PM me and I can recommend agencies for this kind of work.

To build my confidence I did a bcs (British computing society) exam in software testing. Language agnostic as examples will only be conceptual or pseudo- code. Can do it by just reading the book and doing practice q’s from another book. It won’t make u a softwAre tester, but it might give u some confidence and help you apply for entry level manual testing jobs (it is recognised by istqb - international body and sometimes in the ‘desirable’ section in testing jobs).

Other things you could look into are junior database admin or data analyst. I think c++ is quite difficult. Probably better to gain more proficiency in things u already are familiar with? I suppose it also depends on whether you are tied to a specific location or are mobile. You could look at what job opportunities are in your area and build up your Cv to match some of the specifications?

Another path, @MmeSosostris, would be cybersecurity. There is a huge demand for experts in that field.

@Alonelonelylonersbadidea

Will do. Just tidying it up now. Thanks

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

Thank you. This is the area I have been targeting and just had the interview in. Also got interview at UCL last year. Will send you a PM.

@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

Another path, *@MmeSosostris*, would be cybersecurity. There is a huge demand for experts in that field.

You should hit IT / Cyber / Risk Management /Dev Ops. Private or CS. Think large energy operators, water, aviation industries etc.

Apply for roles even if you don't meet all the criteria. New regulations such as NIS mean this area is facing skills gaps and a lack of diversity. You can get entry level roles and climb quickly or go for mid level roles too.

You need your LinkedIn to be current. Look at other profiles.

[quote MmeSosostris]@AlfonsoTheUnrepentant

Thank you. This is the area I have been targeting and just had the interview in. Also got interview at UCL last year. Will send you a PM.[/quote]
Excellent!