To be questioning my intellectual ability because of Civil Service's job applications

[EsteemedPotato]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on mumsnet but I've been an ardent follower for many years now. Am ever so thankful for the bottomless source of info, tips, and banter. I've finally mustered up the courage to engage in the community, partly because I'm dreading CS interviews and am in dire need of help.

As per the subject, I've been starting to feel quite stupid trying to figure out the right balance of language, examples and self-promotion needed to nail behaviour-based interviews. I've been in CS for some years now, so one would think that I'd have figured it out by now... But a series of 2's received following a recent interview has thrown me off quite a bit. I found some useful pieces of advice on here before emphasising the importance of landing the how and why, and making the outcome really clear. But I'm also aware that a star-studded example or one in the relevant operational or policy area is more likely to pick recruiters' interests. Where's the dial here?

I'm certain I must be doing something wrong, but my "mind's eyes" must be broken because I can't see what. I'd be super grateful for views from other CS/public sector employees or anyone familiar with this mind-boggling process!

Can you get a mentor? I got into the CS mostly through luck, struggled with applications for a promotion until a G6 spent some time with me, coached me, looked at my behaviours and did some mock interviews. Within a month I got 3 interviews and 2 job offers. It's all very subjective tbh, but it made much more sense having someone go through the process with me like that. Also meant I didn't need to spend hours preparing once I understood.

I agree with PP, a mentor is a really good idea.

Can you give us some more details? What grade are you trying move from and to? With scores of 2 it’s usually either that your example wasn’t expressed in enough detail (probably the “how”) or that the examples aren’t at the right level for the grade (becomes an issue the higher you go).

Also - it sounds like you are getting interviews? Is that always the stage you have difficulty with?

I’ve coached lots of people through the process of getting a CS promotion, so v happy to help if I can.

@user0176 @Doorhandleghost Thank you both so much for the responses and advice.

I do have a couple of mentors for different aspects of my development, but none at or above G6. I've always been a bit self-conscious and worried about wasting senior colleagues' time You've made a great point, though. I think interview coaching would certainly help.

The roles I've applied for so far are all at SEO level. I do find it tricky sometimes to gather my thoughts even with suitable examples, mainly because I think too much and end up shooting myself in the foot. For example, in a scenario where I'm asked a standard question asking about a time I've managed to bring X number of stakeholders onto a project despite opposite views. I'll stumble because, perhaps in my example, only one had a strong diverging opinion and I'll judge my example as partly irrelevant. This of course affects my delivery and, then, it's the usual snowballing effect...

Doorhandleghost, it'd certainly be helpful to get a fresh pair of eyes on my examples. Perhaps, as you rightly noted, they're not at the right-level or don't show it well enough. Would it be ok for me to send them to you?

I'm external to the CS and have been looking to join at G7 in a specialist area. I've done 1 interview (waiting for outcome still) and have 2 more booked, but the one I did totally threw me as the style was so alien to what I'm used to. It feels far more daunting than the other application processes I've done.

G7 wouldn't be a promotion, it's equivalent to the level I'm currently at, and have also worked at previously.

Im a G6 and I've helped lots of colleagues at HEO level with promotions / development. Please don't feel like you'd be wasting "senior colleagues" time (by the way, at G6 i still don't "feel" senior even though i recognise that i now am!). Is there a G7 or G6 that you are more friendly with? Perhaps someone that you've seen socially or you are in a network with? When i was in the early stages of my career, i asked someone i knew through our women's network to help me.

Are you getting proper feedback on your applications? Worth asking the relevant HR teams as they might be able to provide more than what is uploaded to CS jobs - especially if its an internal role.

SEO can be a tricky one to get right as it’s grouped together with the HEO grade in terms of behaviours but you’re also trying to show a step up - so dealing with more complex, controversial or otherwise challenging issues and working more autonomously. Is it a policy role/department?

One tip I had from a mentor was to stop thinking about behaviours as the starting point for examples. Instead, think about the the most interesting or challenging work you have done, things that you are proud of, and practice talking about them in a short STAR format. Then think about what behaviours they could fit with and tailor appropriately - there is often more than one behaviour you could apply a good example to. This stops you getting stuck if the question is slightly different to the generic behaviour statement (which to be honest they always should be!).

Get lots of support. Use the star format but focus mainly on the A and make sure you use wording from the behavioural indicators. Rehearse it, repeatedly until you know it inside out. Make sure you talk about "I" not "we" or The team/situation but what YOU did. Get a partner to rehearse with and ask them to keep an ear out for you saying anything other than I.

One of the things that is appearing on feedback a lot at the moment is people not answering the questions asked at interview. Appearing to more focus on the core behaviour and giving an example around that rather than considering the actual equation that was passed makes a lot of people fall down. But totally agree with the above get a mentor. Don’t focus on how good you are at your current grade, focus on the parts that stretched you or saw you demonstrating the promotions expected behaviours

Is there a particular behaviour you struggle with? I'm better with some than others but recently got SEO. Have you seen YouTube videos by a guy called Jack Williams? I found them really useful.

I wasn't expecting to get so many responses - which I'm super grateful for!

@GuidingSpirit I usually ask for some feedback from one of the members of the interview panel, but not all have the time. I assumed what was visible on the application page was all the feedback noted. I didn't realise that HR could also hold that info - and more detailed at that! Thank you for the tip; I'll make good use of that knowledge in the future (and spare interviewers' time, too haha). G6 is definitely senior! But point taken. I'll try not to feel as though I'm forcing anyone's hand, so I guess I've got nothing to lose by asking I've been applying for policy roles, though some involve an operational/delivery element as well.

@gothicsprout This is such brilliant advice! Lately, I'm definitely guilty of doing 1. identifying behaviour and 2. trying to find the perfect example for it AND the question, in that order - usually to try to figure out what "buzzwords" or key messages to land and to tie in with the relevant requirement/behaviour. This "strategy" has clearly failed me since I'm constantly thrown into a panic as soon as I realise that there's an element of the question missing that may result in my not ticking the behaviour box. I guess this is where @Shwighty1 point comes in. Although my predicament is more because I overthink and triage 'suitable' examples which makes me rely on examples I hadn't prepared. The thought 'fail to prepare, prepare to fail' popped into my head in the middle of that '2' interview...

Funnily enough, it's less of an issue with answering behaviour question because of content and more of a not thinking enough about 'the most interesting or challenging work you have done" and showing why this matters and is relevant. Perhaps because of nerves. @Forgetaboutme thanks for the recommendation. I'd never heard of him before but having had a quick browse through his channel, I think I could learn a thing or two!

@Mittenmob I'd never gotten a partner before to practice interview with but, as I'm hoping to move up the grades, I don't think rehearsing by myself with imaginary panelists will cut it anymore I've got colleagues I could ask, so I'll try that - thanks.

@CSJobseeker Keeping my fingers and toes crossed for you to hear good news about job! I share that sentiment 100%, but am sure you'll get the hang of it if you haven't already. Your relevant technical experience will definitely stand you in good stead

Sorry I didn't meant to say G6 as in suitable mentor for everyone, I was an SEO aiming for G7, I worked closely with a G6 and he was keen for me to progress but I think one grade higher is suitable enough as they have been where you are and will hopefully still remember what they did to get to that grade.

Although I actually helped coach an SEO getting G7 when I was still only technically an SEO myself (getting PECs done for the G7) once you know your way around the process I think grade is only part of it, for G6 and below the process is largely similar, it's just the depth of answers that change.

You are over thinking in the interview, as pp said answer the question. If it is missing an element a good interviewer will ask a supplementary question and you can say no I didn’t do that on this occasion but I did xyz on this occasion.

I might be able to help - which department is it?

I ask as I think they all approach things slightly differently. I’ve been an independent panel member for several departments, up to and including grade 6. I found the Borders Agency/UKVisas utterly formulaic and simplistic. With the guidance we were given, I found that we were having to pass a lot of people at HEO/SEO level that I seriously doubted were up to the job. Mainstream Home Office was a bit more demanding. Ex DFID seem to have a very clear idea of who they want, particularly for “expert” jobs. MOD and ex FCO were pretty tough, and I felt that the bar was quite high.

@MrsSchadenfreude FCDO is one of the most competitive departments to get into, that'll have an impact.

I'm currently a permanent AO in the Civil Service. I'm not happy in my current role/department and have applied for another AO position and have an interview next week.
However the new role is advertised as temporary for 6 months, with the possibility of extension or permanency.
On that basis, I'm not sure whether it's worth taking it if successful, or am I just being scared of change?
I assume if it is not extended, I would return to my current department, but obviously I would check this out.

Any thoughts?

I would say it’s always worth taking a chance on a6 month Tara or change. I’ve run a project recently where everyone has moved on through promotion which has been brilliant