Appeal process timeframe (after losing job)

[compwiz]

Hope you are all well. Looking for some advice.

I lost my job and decided to appeal.
I appealed within the 14 calendar day window my employer set and requested them to respond within 14 calendar days (just like they did). However its more than 18 calendar days since I sent them my email with appeal grounds and no update yet on an appeal meeting.

I have also been paid my PILON etc which leaves me confused. I was expecting this to happen after the appeal decision is made (example: if the appeal is turned down)
P45 has also come through.

I will be sending them an email to ask the current status.

In the context of above would like to ask

a) What is a reasonable timeframe for the employer to setup an appeal meeting.

b) I am concerned they will still take a while to setup the meeting, and then take more time to release the results. Is there any way I can assertively enforce a timeframe for them to sort things out.

Thanks

++

The company does have a grievance policy which has timeframes for appeals that they follow. But will an dismissal appeal be considered as a grievance (I wasn't sure)

It would be normal for them to pay your pilon and send p45 because they have ‘dismissed’ you. Regardless if you are appealing or not.

Someone with legal experience will hopefully come on here and advise regarding time scales, but their appeals policy should state how long they have to reply. (And I’d say 14 days is very reasonable!)

Regarding the grievance - you have to be an employee to make one I believe.

A reasonable timeframe would be what they’ve set out, and unless they’ve given you a reason they are not following it, they aren’t going to look very reasonable if this ends up in a tribunal.

How long have you worked there and why were you dismissed?

@Dee1975 Thanks for that. I was wondering why pay an dismissed employee PILON and then take that money back if appeal is re-instated. Thats all

@flowery All they set in the dismissal letter was that I will be notified of appeal hearing in due course. This sounds not very fair to me, as due course can be anything they interpret. I have been there 3+ years and lost my job as a result of sickness.

The key timeline for you is the latest date you can lodge an ET1. Check with ACAS.

It’s very unlikely they will change your mind and reinstate you. As a pp said, best to see if you are within the timing for filling an employment tribunal action if you think you have a case.

@Alpinechalet @CayrolBaaaskin

Yes, it does cross my mind that getting re-instated might be unlikely. But was advised to appeal before going to ET, as it means I have tried my best to complete all the employers internal procedures

I have been paid PENP (after dismissal) although my dismissal letter states that I will be paid PILON . Below is the wordings from my contract.

Could someone help to understand if this stands as PILON or PENP.

"During the probationary period your employment may be terminated by either you giving 1 month’s notice or by xxxxxxxx giving 1 month’s notice in writing. Of the successful completion of your probationary period, the period of notice given by either party to terminate your employment is 3 months’ in writing"

Thanks

The wording looks like it should be PILON, however be aware PILON is now treated as taxable income.

With regard to whether or not to lodge an ET1, it is too early and you should wait for the appeal outcome. However, unscrupulous employers have been know to drag out appeals. This is why if it goes on for too long you need to lodge the ET1 as this tends to nudge employers to get on with the appeal.

@Alpinechalet Yes Agree to what you say. I wont leave it too long

As the old company aren't being very quick, if I found a new job and the old company re-instate me after appeal, any ideas where does that leave me? Could I still walk away if I wanted to (or) do I need to resign formally

Thanks

It’s 99.99% likely you won’t get reinstated.

@NavigatingAdolescence Is that % based on proven statistics?

It is very unlikely you would be reinstated. If your employer offered this you would then have decide whether to accept or negotiate a settlement instead. However, unless your new job pays significantly less the fact you have a new job limits your ability to negotiate a settlement in excess of your legal entitlement.

You may not be aware but the ET1 asks if you have found another job and how much it pays. They will take this into account when working out the financial detriment you have suffered. As you have secured a new job unless there was a compelling reason e.g. significant difference in salary, they would not order reinstatement.

[quote compwiz]@NavigatingAdolescence Is that % based on proven statistics?[/quote]
20ish years in senior HR positions. Never once had someone reinstated on appeal or tribunal.

But then I’d have ensured that any possible reasonable adjustments/support had been put in place.

I'm sorry but you absolutely won't be getting your job back,
I strongly suspect that they'll just ignore you from now on, as you are no longer an employee . Honestly op I would just Kobe on .

@Crazycrazylady I wish you weren't right, but looks like you are.

@Alpinechalet @NavigatingAdolescence Thanks for your comments.

I was hoping the appeal would have completed by now and I can update on this thread. But the meeting hasn't taken place yet and if I calculate timelines it leaves very little time if I want to raise with ACAS.

I am confused whether to go for the appeal or go to ET as employer has dragged it along.

If I accept the appeal meeting invite, do I put myself in a difficult position if change my mind and decline it later on .

Also, if I dismissal letter was sent on Monday(example) and last day was Friday(example), would the 3 months (less 1 day) start from Monday or Friday

Thanks

You can lodge an ET 1 whilst the appeal is ongoing. Your employer would reply to ACAS advising they were considering your appeal. ACAS would then put your claim on hold until the outcome of the appeal was known.

Lodging an ET1 now preserves your right to go to an ET but allows the appeal to reach its conclusion - you need to attend the appeal etc. to show you have acted in good faith. Lodging the ET1 now also sends your employer a clear message you are not letting this drop and they may offer a settlement.

I would not wait until the last minute to lodge the ET1, try to get it in a couple of weeks before the deadline so it’s clear you were in time.

Afternoon

Hope you are well

Just an update:

The appeal did not get upheld as some of you already forecasted.
My EC has already been raised, but employer hasnt responded yet to ACAS.

a) I am assuming if the employer doesnt respond to ACAS that doesnt affect the EC?
b) During the appeal I mentioned that I have improved drastically healthwise and would like my job back. Could I ask if appeals should take into consideration new evidence? I spoke to ACAS and they seem to think its fair, but they cant take my side as they have to be impartial
c) Lastly, any recommendations for the 1st hour free legal advice (or) employment solicitors that have reasonable hourly charges.
I speak to my legal helpline(home insurance), but am never sure if its a qualified solicitor

Thanks

Why are you so desperate to go back to a job where you are clearly not wanted?

You haven't said the reason for your sickness absences.

Was it a disability or long term condition? In which case, you could claim disability discrimination if that means more doctors appointments etc.

But the employer would need to have been aware.

They would also have had to have made reasonable adjustments, again if they were aware of any condition.

Lots of sickness for the common cold, hangovers, child is sick, is unlikely to win your case.

If your health has improved since leaving, that makes no difference. Its what took place during your employment that matters.

disclaimer: HR qualified, union rep (in the past) and also won a tribunal case of my own for disability discrimination.

@heelforheelandtoefortoe

Thanks for the response.

Yes its due to disability/long term sickness.
Yes employer was aware via OH reports.

Why would it be wrong not to consider new evidence. After all, the employee wants to come back and is ready for work.

The ACAS code allows new evidence in disciplinary and grievance hearings during appeal. So I am not sure why it wouldn't be allowed for people who want to get back to work.

I think the tribunal would look at reasons for dismissal and what the employer knew etc at the time.

My own case wasn't about absence and IANAL but dismissal appeal would be different from grievances.

You really need to speak to a union (if you're in one - silly mistake if not) or a lawyer.

Don't deal with it all by yourself or just through ACAS as they are not lawyers either.

Are you claiming for discrimination? How much time have you had off and how long had you been with the company?

You're not giving us much information to go on. Do you have a new job now, or are you seeking work?

Hi, they absolutely should take into account your new evidence, I use this case as a teaching case for my HR learners, which has some similarities to your case.

Obrien v bolton st catherine academy