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Is this discrimination/constructive dismissal?

9 replies

user1479588581 · 24/11/2021 20:54

Hi,

Help!

5 years ago, I asked my boss at the time for a title change from Sr Specialist to Manager. This was to reflect the additional work load I had taken on over many years prior and the responsibility had become more senior in its nature (supporting top accounts etc). He agreed in writing that a plan would be put in place for this to happen at my next review period and that he would speak to my new line manager to get this implemented. My new boss told me he'd spoken to someone in the US and they required more demonstration of project work. So that year I dutifully took on a huge project, presented the findings to America and went off on maternity leave.

..About 6 weeks after I'd left, my colleague contacted me (same level, same work), informing me that he had changed her title and I should follow up with him. I did, to which he told me this would be sorted out when I returned to work. I got back to work and he told me I could work towards this at the end of that year, so I carried on doing more project work. During that year he was moved aside (for bullying reported by my other colleague) and she was moved into his place! I now report to her!! That Manager role was not advertised externally or internally and I was not given the opportunity to apply, I was just informed you are now to report into x.

X was sympathetic and told me she would help support to get my title change to Sales Ops manager but it couldn't be in FY20 as she'd only just got the role. During that year I worked on a huge project that I came up with the original idea, led on and executed presenting the material to senior management. This year I've done even more projects, taken on 2 additional senior accounts, one of which was a lot of support and my name was mentioned in an email to the VP of the company. I was told at the beginning of this year, and half way through the year that she was working on my title change and should happen end of this year. I asked her if she could provide me with a job description as there wasn't one for the role, there is an internal description but that's it. She would not have come up with this had I not asked her to. In August a new girl joined and we were told she could help support our department for 6 months, she does not report into my boss. My boss told me to onboard her on various things, so I reached out and did that, she also asked me to delegate work to her which I did when I had work to give, but I was very busy keeping on top of all the additional project work I was now doing.

..Anyway, at my end of year review on Monday she told me "The title change isn't happening, I thought long and hard about it, but I feel that you didn't demonstrate managerial capabilities because you didn't delegate enough to this girl and she was coming to me to ask questions a lot (they are both located in the same office!! I am in a different country's office! No one can fly due to Covid). I was not made clear at ANY point that this would depend on my title change, also NO WHERE in the internal description of the role does it mention managing people and also the role itself wouldn't require me to manage anyone currently (we havent had the budget to add an additional person in our team for years!), I am her only report, so I'm not sure how that's relevant. She then finished off by telling me she would be reducing her hours next year!! No mention of how that would impact me. As well as the comment "I was a lot older than you when I got my promotion, so you have time"...I mean wtf!!! I've been at the company longer than her and trained her ffs, my only sin was having a baby!

I am beyond annoyed now as I've done everything they've asked. I am absolutely capable of the role and doing the role now frankly and have been for awhile, I am certainly doing a very similar role to her as it is already!

Before anyone says why the hell haven't I jumped ship years ago, its because my son was young and its a very flexible working from home role, for a well known blue chip company, with alot of perks.

We are going IVF transfers at the moment to try and have a second so may well be pregnant next year anyway so won't care so much but I'm just livid that I keep being taken advantage of. I am certain that next year they will try and put me on some kind of promotion plan but if I were to have another baby would the same thing happen again?!

I get consistently good feedback, and am well respected by colleagues. I said to her during the call, look if I'm not going to get the title change, then I need to stop doing all this additional project work then as that's definitely not part of my current job description and I'm working late 3 evenings a week on calls to the US missing out on time with my family!

Can anyone provide me with some practical advice on what to do?

OP posts:
Skysblue · 24/11/2021 21:19

Huh. That sucks!

I think your biggest problem is that you current boss is a cow, and your previous boss a bully, and both have dangled the prospect of promotion for literally years to get you to do extra work for free, then haven’t met their end of the deal.

Is there any sideways move you can eventually do into a different department? I think it will be very difficult for you to have a great working relationship with her now. She sees you as a stepping stone to support her career goals, and the situation with you working extra hours with no promotion, while she cuts hers but has a promotion, apparently suits her just fine.

I’m sorry your boss is a cow :( I suspect she is jealous of your baby / dislikes working women or simply needs a junior colleague not an equal as part of her work plans. (Almost all of the unpleasant colleagues I’ve had have been women who love working with men but have an issue working respectfully with other women.)

I don’t see a case for constructive dismissal though. I’d stop doing the extra project work etc, stick to your current job description, focus on the ivf, and after your next lot of matl she may well be gone (and if she isn’t that’s the time to plot an exit strategy).

Hunderland · 24/11/2021 22:10

Not discrimination or constructive dismissal but very shitty and I would stop work on the projects straight away.
If you're not a manager then surely they should be your LM's remit.

user1479588581 · 25/11/2021 08:24

@Skysblue

Huh. That sucks!

I think your biggest problem is that you current boss is a cow, and your previous boss a bully, and both have dangled the prospect of promotion for literally years to get you to do extra work for free, then haven’t met their end of the deal.

Is there any sideways move you can eventually do into a different department? I think it will be very difficult for you to have a great working relationship with her now. She sees you as a stepping stone to support her career goals, and the situation with you working extra hours with no promotion, while she cuts hers but has a promotion, apparently suits her just fine.

I’m sorry your boss is a cow :( I suspect she is jealous of your baby / dislikes working women or simply needs a junior colleague not an equal as part of her work plans. (Almost all of the unpleasant colleagues I’ve had have been women who love working with men but have an issue working respectfully with other women.)

I don’t see a case for constructive dismissal though. I’d stop doing the extra project work etc, stick to your current job description, focus on the ivf, and after your next lot of matl she may well be gone (and if she isn’t that’s the time to plot an exit strategy).

Thanks for your reply. I agree, it is hard because I feel like I’ve done everything that’s been required of me. She asked me to think about mentoring which I’ve done for 2 bloody years now, having calls with 2 senior colleagues as well as joining the women’s empowerment group call thing once a month! Not once did she suggest management training or anything like that, it was never raised. She’s said maybe four times “if you have extra work give it to this girl” but I rarely did that wasn’t project work I was on. When I mentioned this she said a manager should know how to delegate?! But I’m not a manager yet and it wasn’t made clear to me that this was now the new requirement. I manage ALOT of processes in our systems and lead and contribute on several projects to get new processes built in.

I asked for regular meetings next year to review my progress towards the title change and she’s asked me if I want to do these with just her, her and her boss (who’s a really nice guy and might be my only chance of this actually happening!) or her and HR (who ultimately are out to protect the company but might/should be concerned with my raising the maternity discrimination..again, and the fact the job role wasn’t advertised and I therefore wasn’t given the opportunity to apply, which I think is unfair?!).

If you were me which option would you take? Just her, her and her boss or her and HR? I’m obviously now worried that if I say I want to drop a project, thats then going to be used against me at the next review period that I don’t do enough project work now 🤷‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I’m sprucing up my LinkedIn profile and will make it obvious to them I’m looking for new jobs! I’m also going to try and get the next level of Salesfofce qualifications over the next year.

OP posts:
SolasAnla · 25/11/2021 08:32

Ok what has happened to your pay?

You keep asking for a new title to match a new role which has more responsibility how much did your pay jump each time you worked outside your role?

user1479588581 · 25/11/2021 08:59

@SolasAnla

Ok what has happened to your pay?

You keep asking for a new title to match a new role which has more responsibility how much did your pay jump each time you worked outside your role?

Hi, I’m asking to go up from P3 to P4 level title is Manager because the work I’m doing now covers that internal job description exactly and more.

Salary hasn’t jumped much since I got promoted from Sales Specialist to Sr Sales Specialist. There is never a discussion on salary when new projects come up it’s just expected that you’ll do it. I’m not even sure how to word this to her?! Will there be an increase in my salary to reflect this?! 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
SolasAnla · 25/11/2021 10:37

When you take in more responsibilty, you look for more pay.

All organisations run on a cost/benefit budget system. Managers justify the costs their department generate (staff and associated costs) against the benefit they generate. You have spotted that yourself.
Saving money is always going to be a manager KIP.
High output at low cost is the best outcome, high output at high cost can be justified by business need but underperformance would be low output at high cost.

Your managers were getting extra projects delivered for no extra cost. That a KPI on their YE review. Their department produced over and above what was expected.

You want recognition then start with wanting financial recognition.

You want more money for your output. Be rutless go through your role and measure it against what you did.
Give examples of the past projects and the training of the staff member and the current deliverables which are not in your current role.

The new staffer was not being managed by you, you did what your manager requested. It would have been inappropriate for you to direct her work if she is not even managed by your boss. However you need to think tactically about what additional jobs your manager is tacking on to the end of the stick dangling the promotion.
What did your department gain by you spending work time training someone who will leave in 6 months? What KPI got ticked and for whom?

Financial recognition is a blunt way of forcing the issue.
If the only way to achieve the pay rise is a change in manager level then if your manager wants you to do the extra jobs they sell the new manager level to their boss.
She could have done this when she was promoted. She was aware of the history had your boss removed and got his job is planning to reduce her input next year.
Well you leaving and her having to on-board a new employee may be the spark she needs to fight her your corner.

Aprilx · 25/11/2021 19:23

I don’t see any grounds for constructive dismissal or a discrimination claim. It looks more like the people that you are working with and in control of your future either do not value your contribution or are not prepared to put a value to that contribution.

The question about the meetings is odd. Why would you have regular meetings with your boss plus their boss or your boss plus HR? I have never come across such a thing and it doesn’t sound like it would be done for your benefit.

CayrolBaaaskin · 25/11/2021 19:33

I don’t see any constructive dismissal here - that means something so bad that you are forced to resign. It’s a high bar. Also I don’t see any discrimination -you need a male comparator if you are claiming sex discrimination

Fizzgigg · 25/11/2021 19:52

I do think the maternity leave is a factor. You made a case for your role to be retitled and that change was implemented for a colleague when you went on maternity leave
It should have been applied to you while on leave and not waited until you were back. And then as a partial result of that change someone got a promotion you weren't given a chance to apply for. The problem is that you didn't address that at the time and left it all lie for ages so I think it's too late to now claim it was unfair.

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