Part time workers reg issue or discrimination and formal grievance

[NandoLorris]

Argh, I can't believe it has come to this.

Short version. I work in a technical role. I am a woman, working part time because I have a 2 and 4 year old. My 2 colleagues in the same role as me are both male and full time. I work for a firm with 500 employees.

I found out last week that they have been meeting with one of the men to offer him what is effectively a promotion. They have not mentioned it to me, despite me being more qualified (I have professional qualifications, he does not). Before this, another role came up l, which would have been a promotion. My line manager spoke to both men about it, but not me. I now this is because they want/need to roles to be full time.

My line manager knows I want to progress and that I have been interested in both of these roles. I have spoken to my line manager twice today and yesterday, and both times he has repeatedly told me the role is full time, can not be part time. Friends think I should apply for the role anyway so they have to decline me on the basis of me being part time. In these meetings I have been told there is not and will not ever be any progression for me on a part time basis.

It has got to the stage where I am going to quit, I have been made to feel worthless and all trust has gone. But they have done this to could bless other women in this technical role so I feel like I should try and hold them to account. I have tried the informal approach and been rebuffed. I think I need to ask for a "written statement of reasons" as to why I have been treated unfavourably (because I am part time, Part Time Workers Regulations) but I have no idea how I would word this. I feel so out of my depth. Has anyone got any experience of requesting a written statement of reasons?

I just want to quit and run away but worried if I do that I might lose my chance to show them for the frauds they are and stop other women being badly treated by them.

I'd probably ask for the confirmation in writing that as a part time worker, there will never be any promotional opportunities as stated to you in previous meeting on x, y and z dates with a, b, and/or c managers.

And see what they do.

And copy HR in to the request.

You can ask for the progression possibilities of a part timer, but the bottom line is if they need full time and you won’t do it, then it’s not about gender or anything else, if you can’t do the job in terms of time then you cannot progress.

You might want to ask MNHQ to move this thread to the Employment Issues board, OP.

@ErrolTheDragon

You might want to ask MNHQ to move this thread to the Employment Issues board, OP.

Oh no, has it appeared in AIBU or something? It's showing as in Employment Issues on my phone...

That's odd...it was showing up as site stuff for me then but is in employment issues now. Just a glitch on the app I guess!

@Bluntness100

You can ask for the progression possibilities of a part timer, but the bottom line is if they need full time and you won’t do it, then it’s not about gender or anything else, if you can’t do the job in terms of time then you cannot progress.

The job could be done part time, easily. The previous role holder did it successfully working part time hours.

@ErrolTheDragon

That's odd...it was showing up as site stuff for me then but is in employment issues now. Just a glitch on the app I guess!

Thank God, I'm emotional enough as it is without the onslaught of AIBU!

The job could be done part time, easily. The previous role holder did it successfully working part time hours

Then I think you need to ask why it can no longer be done part time.

Honestly the company is within its rights to make that decision, but it needs to habe a justifation.

You need to separate the two issues. Not been offered a chance to apply for a promotion = discrimination. The role being full time is not discrimination. There should be nothing to stop you moving to a FT role (its up to you if you decide not to ).

If you have already decided to quit, I would just work on finding something else and getting out of there.

And yes, it does sound like they are treating you less favourably because of your part time status.

Going down the formal grievance route will be a lot of effort and aggravation. Even if the grievance is upheld, which is far from certain, it's unlikely to lead to your aim of showing them for the frauds they are and stopping other women being badly treated by them. It might not change their minds about anything.

@anniegun

You need to separate the two issues. Not been offered a chance to apply for a promotion = discrimination. The role being full time is not discrimination. There should be nothing to stop you moving to a FT role (its up to you if you decide not to ).

Agree with this.

If you were willing to go full time and they refused to let you go for the role you may have a discrimination case on your hands.

This issue is different, you’re a part timer, you want other part time jobs, the company is saying they will not offer this. As long as they can articulate a justifiable business reason why they wish it to be full time, they are doing nothing wrong, it’s yout own decision to work part time that’s taking you out of the running.

Right now you’re prioritising working part time, to spend more time at home with your kids, this is fine but for both men and women an unwillingness to work full time will have limitations on their career.

The company is at liberty to decide whether a role is full time or not. If you don’t want to work full time, then it is you that has ruled yourself out of that role, not the employer.

For what it is worth, and for the sake of anyone else who finds themselves in my position, I spoke with ACAS yesterday who confirmed that I would be looking at discrimination OR receiving less favourable treatment as a part time employee OR possibly both. Obviously ACAS know more of the detail than I have revealed here.

Under the Part Time Workers Regulations employers cannot be treat part time staff less favourably than full time staff in a number of specified areas. One of these areas is in relation to promotions. I didn't know these regulations existed until today, I'm sure many others don't too.

Thanks for the posts, they've mainly proved how hard I would have to work to get the management and HR to listen. @MrsSquirrel thanks, you're right. The trust has gone too, so the end is just a matter of time. Never thought I'd be judged on the number of hours I worked rather than my expertise and ability.

I think the missing information is key, as it stands from what you’ve posted you are not being treated less favourably, they just won’t make these roles part time for you or anyone else but you’re at liberty to go full time and apply,

So I think without the missing info that you’ve given acas no one can help?

All I am looking for is whether anyone has experience of asking for a written statement of reasons.

The rest was background information, so they could understand why I needed to.

Honestly it's not discrimination to say some
Roles are full time only. I don't know what you would think that jt is?

@Crazycrazylady

Honestly it's not discrimination to say some Roles are full time only. I don't know what you would think that jt is?

It’s impossible to say, clearly on the info provided it’s not discrimination but the op has it sorted with additional info, so the thread is redundant.

Good luck op, enjoy your promotion, glad you got it sorted with acas.

If you were going to pursue this you might also want to consider whether it's indirect gender/carer discrimination: women are far more likely to work part time, therefore having all senior roles as full time only indirectly discriminates against women.

There's also the fact that presumably they didn't even approach you to ask if you would consider going full time despite them knowing you're more qualified for the senior role.

Tbh I would probably just move on. But they sound like arseholes so you could stick it to them

* The company is at liberty to decide whether a role is full time or not. If you don’t want to work full time, then it is you that has ruled yourself out of that role, not the employer.*

^This.

My little ones are the same age as yours, OP. I've been wondering what rights I have as a part-time worker. Because I work part time I can't lead a project, which means I can't tick some boxes on a form, so my rating at the end of the year can never be higher than "meets expectations", even if I'm working my socks off. So I won't get a pay rise for the foreseeable future. I'll check out those rights that you mentioned, see if it helps.

@Orchardgirl4 I'm really glad that you've found that helpful. Most on the posts on this thread have shown complete ignorance for this area of employment law. This was the most reader friendly link on the regs I came across: www.gov.uk/part-time-worker-rights
The advice from @User0ne is spot on in terms of what the law says.

I work part time because I look after my daughter, not because I don't want to be full time!

Thanks OP. It is the equal opportunities for 'selection for promotion' part that gets me feeling like things are not fair. Interesting what that previous post said about only offering senior roles as part-time indirectly discriminates against women. I am kind of stuck if I can't progress due to roles not being available for part-time. The odd thing is, it has been other women (mothers themselves) that I felt have been down-playing my work ability, or in the HR role had tried to tell me I couldn't do the hours I requested (I fought that one very directly). Not all, other women have been very supportive. Just something odd I noticed.

It's all about process.

They haven't given you fair visibility and opportunity to apply for the promotion post, they have just handed it to the full time male worker on a silver plate, without inviting you to apply and be fairly assessed as to your suitability for the role. They have been guilty of unconscious or even conscious bias that as the woman, you wouldn't consider altering your current hours of work to enable you to do the role. They took the choice away from you. "Part-time" can be anything from (for example) 4 days a week, or 5 hours a day, or term time, or many permutations. If they had tried a bit harder having determined that you're the right person for the job, it could have been a conversation, a negotiation about what hours you could do, to make the job work. It's just lazy thinking Ad a lot of the time, they can't be arsed to think creatively about "the art of the possible" and take the easy way out - "give it to the full time man".

I would put in a grievance and lay out all the facts, including the above as they have failed in their duty to treat the men and women in the company as equals. There is systematic bias against women, who are almost 100% likely to be the primary care givers and hence part time workers.

Where I work they are really good at this stuff, they create a level playing field by not assuming anything, giving support to women who may be the better, more suitable, more qualified person for the job, and ensure they have full transparency on what the assessment criteria are and end up with a more balanced diverse organisation.