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Working hours - what are my rights?

22 replies

Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 09:47

I recently started a new job last month and my manager started a couple of weeks before I did. We get on really well. Both of our contracts say 40 hours over 5 days with the occasional overtime. We're salaried (albeit not high ones) so won't be paid the extra. We know that's the norm. However, it's become evident that the company expect us to do overtime every week. This was never explained to us before we started. My manager is pretty much on call 7 days a week checking emails, taking phone calls etc. He's not had a day off since he started.

He tries to make sure that I take my two days off but the days change and it's always very last minute so I can't make plans. There's no work life balance at all with the company. They expect us to change or cancel our plans (the ones that we can make) at the last minute. We've also been told that we need to be on call during our days off. The final straw was last week when we'd both been out of the house from 7:30am without a lunch break, both driving home at 4:30 and the operations manager called to ask us if we could go somewhere else, which would have meant we wouldn't have got home until at least 9pm. We both said no and she made us feel awful. Huge huge guilt trip. She found someone else to do it and the poor bugger didn't finish until 8:30 (can see on the group chat).

Both of us have raised the issue with his line manager and the operations manager on multiple occasions. Both have fobbed us off and said that's just the way things are, take it or leave it and if we want a day off then we need to take it day by day and when a day is looking quiet just take it off. We asked why the contract states 5 days with the occasional overtime if that's not the case and they came back and said that the contracts need looking at and need to be changed. Confused. My manager spoke with HR who told him to speak to his line manager as she couldn't comment on it as she's only just started with the company recently herself Confused. Surely that's her job though? We are literally banging our heads against a brick wall.

The operations manager phoned me yesterday at the last minute to ask if I could drive somewhere 2 hours away. I said no as I already had a full days work, had been out the house since 6am and wouldn't get home until late with the extra work. My manager was off, still on call though but I really didn't want to call him in on his only day off. She was persistent and asked me 5 times. Made me feel awful and said that other staff have a higher work load than me etc.
I told her that the phone call was making me feel uncomfortable and I didn't appreciate being put on the spot and made to feel guilty for saying that it was too much.

When we started we were both told that Sundays are one out of two of our days off and we're both away next weekend. We're absolutely dreading it and how their going to make us feel. I've already spoken to ACAS who weren't very helpful and just told me to speak with my line manager. We're both already looking for another job but who knows how long that will take. We're suffering with a lot of anxiety because of this job and the unreasonable expectations and we can't seem to get through to management. They are all like robots, up at 5am and working until 10pm for a lousy salary. It's insane. They are a huge company and have a very high staff turnover which HR have openly admitted to my manager during a phone call. Other issues include being told we need to be on call during our annual leave as well and if we are called in then we given TOIL.

What are my rights here? My manager and I are supporting each other but I don't want to speak for him if I do contact HR.

OP posts:
Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 09:48

It's such a shame because the role itself is lovely and I really enjoy it. It's the working hours and management that ruin it...

OP posts:
MrMrsJones · 31/10/2021 09:50

Have a chat with ACAS.
They are brilliant

Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 09:51

We WON'T be given TOIL if we're called in during our annual leave, sorry!

OP posts:
Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 09:52

Unfortunately I have already spoken with ACAS @MrMrsJones and they told me to speak to my line manager. I didn't find them helpful at all tbh.

OP posts:
HairyScaryMonster · 31/10/2021 09:57

Don't be guilted, if it's not in your contract, refuse. On call during annual leave no way! They have to give you double the length of your leave notice to cancel leave. Day off? Phone off. The worse they can do is sack you. Don't kill yourself over this!

ftw163532 · 31/10/2021 09:57

It might not hurt to try again and see if you speak to someone more helpful. Did they discuss working time directive with you?

Practically, there isn't much you can do really except leave.

You're not going to be able to change the fundamental culture of the organisation, especially not as someone who's been employed under 2 years.

JackieCollinshasnoauthority · 31/10/2021 09:58

I think this is a non starter and you need to find another job. Work to rule in the meantime.

BackBackBack · 31/10/2021 10:01

If it says in your contract that your hours can be varied then they'll rely on that, unfortunately.

However you do have the right to a minimum 11 hour break between shifts so if your working hours are impinging on that, then next time they ask say no and explain that they are breaking the law by insisting you work.

Animood · 31/10/2021 10:03

How much are you paid roughly?

Just asking because if you're a high earner often these hours are required by the job.

Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 10:05

I am currently looking for another job and have applied for lots of different things just to get me out of here. It's just dealing with the craziness in the meantime that's causing me a lot of stress and anxiety. I've given up with management but have thought about sending an email to HR explaining that I've raised these issues before and have been dismissed. Surely they can't just ignore me?

I'm not interested in changing the culture of the organisation but they are breaking so many employment laws, it's shocking and such a disgrace. They've only been able to get away with it for so long because the staff just get on with it and don't complain.

My salary is 21k a year.

OP posts:
Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 10:07

One staff member that I spoke to told me that he hadn't taken any time off for over a year!

OP posts:
MrMrsJones · 31/10/2021 10:11

They are breaking so many riles.

You all need to band together and work to rule

MrMrsJones · 31/10/2021 10:13

*rules

Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 10:24

They won't @MrMrsJones, at the moment it's only my manager and I that have an issue with it. Their all like robots and think it's normal. I've noticed at first any new starter is always really enthusiastic and then the company slowly drains them. Staff turnover is crazy, within 3 weeks of us starting, 3 managers left. They have 4 vacancies for supervisors and 6 for managers!

OP posts:
Weallneedchocolate · 31/10/2021 10:24

And they wonder why they can't recruit!

OP posts:
Sparklfairy · 31/10/2021 10:34

I would try ACAS again and ask for specifica about the working time directive. Isnt it no more than 48hours in a week and no more than 6 (?) days in a row? Does your contract mention the WTD? Sometimes there's an "opt out" hidden away in there.

HouseOfFire · 01/11/2021 12:46

@Weallneedchocolate

We WON'T be given TOIL if we're called in during our annual leave, sorry!
Is that even legal?
Invisimamma · 01/11/2021 12:58

The amount of hours you're working on £21k, could be pushing you under minimum wage. I'd check that out too.

It sounds like a horrible situation. Even salaried staff should be paid overtime of be offered toil over your contacted 40 hours per week.

Animood · 01/11/2021 17:31

You can get a fixed hours role for £21,000.

It's not far off the new minimum wage, meaning (a) any other full time role you get will be a similar wage by default, and (b) if they're asking for more hours they might be breaking the law.

I asked how much you were paid because I earn more than triple what you do, and I put in the hours to get the job done.

But for £21,000 - no way I'd be doing much extra if any. They're taking the piss. You get what you pay for with employees. If they're paying you 21,000 they're going to get the hours you are obliged to do, maybe some flexibility with 1/2 hour here and there every couple of months. But not hours/ days extra. What a fucking joke.

Sorry for massive rant it just pisses me off!

Animood · 01/11/2021 17:33

@Sparklfairy

I would try ACAS again and ask for specifica about the working time directive. Isnt it no more than 48hours in a week and no more than 6 (?) days in a row? Does your contract mention the WTD? Sometimes there's an "opt out" hidden away in there.
Employment contracts contain an opt out from the working time directive as standard. I wouldn't bother with that.
Animood · 01/11/2021 17:33

@Weallneedchocolate

One staff member that I spoke to told me that he hadn't taken any time off for over a year!
This is illegal.
Viviennemary · 01/11/2021 17:47

Ask them for a copy of your contract of employment stating days to be worked and hours to be worked. Together with their hourly rate and holiday entitlement.

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