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Original poster

Unpaid leave - is this legal?

25 replies

Valaris · 27/10/2021 14:40

Hi, I'm disabled and unable to work. My husband started a new job this year and so only had a few days holiday allowance.

The shop is shut for 11 days and there's no option to work. It completely closes down. The staff have been given this letter: (see attached pic)

He's used all his annual leave to look after our DC while I've been at hospital appointments and losing 4 days pay is a massive amount of money for us to take it as unpaid leave.

Is this legal? If they shut down over Xmas can they not pay staff?

OP posts:

Essentialgarage · 27/10/2021 14:42

Yes, with notice this is legal. All holiday can be dictated by employer but in general this doesn't happen as staff do not like it.

csectionmumma · 27/10/2021 14:43

It's not uncommon for firms to shut down over Christmas. Quite a few do it, but this will normally be dictated when they start the job and should be in the contract. Places will normally say "25 days annual leave, with four to be taken over Christmas"

Ask
Him to check his contract

Twickerhun · 27/10/2021 14:44

The employer can tell you when to take annual leave and if you don’t have enough paid leave the option would be unpaid leave. It looks lawful to me. I usually have to save some annual leave for Christmas. Rough on you if he wasn’t aware.

dementedpixie · 27/10/2021 14:44

I imagine its legal as long as they are giving the correct number of holiday days in the first place. They can specify when holidays can be taken and have given an option of annual leave or unpaid leave.

jendifer · 27/10/2021 14:46

Is there any opportunity for TOIL?

ImUninsultable · 27/10/2021 14:46

Yup. Legal.

TeacupDrama · 27/10/2021 14:46

Yes it is legal ifyou have annual, leave you can take it and be paid if you have used up all your annual leave that's it. In the end if you got paid regardless it would end up with some staff having been gifted 4 extra days of paid leave. Most people will have some annual leave left . Ideally notice of this would have been earlier to make sure staff had annual leave left, if company have always shut down between Christmas and New Year they should know they need annual leave days for it, if it is a new thing it would have been nice to be given more notice but a company can dictate when your holiday is taken.

Tibtab · 27/10/2021 14:47

Get him to speak to his workplace as they might be able to let him “borrow” some from his future annual leave. So he will accrue them in Jan/Feb. He wouldn’t be able to take any more leave until March though assuming he accrues approx 2 days per month AL.

WalesStar · 27/10/2021 14:48

We shut down between Xmas and new year but the annual leave days are taken off at the beginning of the holiday year/when you start. It’s a bit unfair they didn’t do this, but then he would have had to take unpaid leave earlier in the year to look after your dc.

happytoday73 · 27/10/2021 14:48

Very common. My last three jobs have required me to keep 3 of 4 days each year for Christmas holidays. It's very very common

InPraiseOfLadyGrey · 27/10/2021 14:48

Yes it's legal. In companies that shut down over Christmas, staff are expected to save enough annual leave to cover it. In the case of new employees who haven't accrued enough annual leave or those who took all the annual leave already due to emergencies, such as your DH, the leave period for when the company is shut will be unpaid. It's difficult this year for you, but in future it can feel a benefit to work for a company that shuts down over Christmas. No arguments about who is having annual leave that year or rotas for working Christmas Day etc.

Notthisnotthat · 27/10/2021 14:50

Yes, legal, the company I work for do it, but at my induction they made me aware so before i had taken any annual leave at all I allocated it to the shut down.

EarringsandLipstick · 27/10/2021 14:51

I'm not sure why you think it wouldn't be legal.

In most workplaces, as stated, you are expected to keep sufficient annual leave to cover Christmas leave.

However

My husband started a new job this year and so only had a few days holiday allowance.

Usually the employer will allow you to take some leave from the next year's allowance in this case.

Again, this should all have been clear in his contract / information received at the start of the job

Whatelsecouldibecalled · 27/10/2021 14:51

I always thought this was ‘normal’ that you have to save some leave for Xmas?

Original poster

Valaris · 27/10/2021 15:04

Ah thanks very much. We know I'm advance so can plan for it, so January pay will be lower than usual so we will put a little bit aside the next couple of months and will get by. Thanks for your input!

OP posts:

janj2301 · 27/10/2021 15:14

I worked in an agency for construction workers, all our contracts closed for two weeks at Christmas/New Year and we had to factor that into our annual holiday entitlement.

EmmaGrundyForPM · 27/10/2021 15:19

I work for a Local Authority. It closes between Christmas and NY apart from.emergency staff. Everyone else has to take 3 days annual leave.

One year they decided that, rather than expecting us to use AL, we would all have it as additional unpaid leave. They only told us in the October, and we had money taken out of our pay every month for the next year. There were loads of complaints about it but it turned out to be completely legal.

MagicWorkout · 27/10/2021 15:19

I think the letter actually aims to help staff by giving them the choice of AL or unpaid. I'd take unpaid and have extra time off, but I'm at a different stage of life.

He should at least be able to take 3 Jan from next years allowance.

Comefromaway · 27/10/2021 15:23

Yes, it is legal. We have to save 10 days for Christmas as we shut down on 21st December and come back on 5th Jan.

If anyone new hasn't got enough holiday to cover it because they haven't built the entitlement up yet we do usually offer them to borrow some days from the following holiday year (which starts 1st Jan).

trappedsincesundaymorn · 27/10/2021 15:38

Yep my old company used to give all employees a list of all company closures. All A/L was automatically deducted to cover when the place was shut and all A/L left over was taken when the employee wanted it. New starters were given the "shut down sheet" when they started so they where fully aware, although if they did not have enough A/L accrued they were expected to take it unpaid.

BashfulClam · 27/10/2021 16:23

Very standard. My previous workplace expected you to keep 3 days (which was crap as the only fave is 20 days) we finished up on Christmas Eve and came back on 3rd January (2nd Jan is a bank
Holiday in Scotland).

HouseOfFire · 27/10/2021 16:28

we get 22 days a year, and then we are given the time off for christmas shut down...

Pandaly · 27/10/2021 16:32

Yes. Especially common in shops and factories that shut down.

SirensofTitan · 27/10/2021 16:35

I'd more common that not to have some days closed over Christmas/NewYear unless it's a 365 type operation. Even a lot of shops are closing on Boxing day now.

GizmoIsSoFluffy · 27/10/2021 16:44

Worst I had was I had to keep 17 of 20 days for 2 enforced shutdowns. I knew about the 20 days, but they didn't tell me the other bit until after I'd joined. I left after 3 months!!

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