My employer can't mandate masks outside of work, right?

[MyBraIsOnFire]

My employer (a university) has a mask mandate - we must wear masks in the vast majority of circumstances at work.

I abide by this.

Today I was in Tesco which is not on campus without a mask. I saw my line manager but we didn't stop to speak (heading in different directions, some distance from each other).

Then I had received an email booking in a meeting to chat about my not wearing a mask in Tesco.

The email basically said that staff are 'expected and encouraged' to wear masks in enclosed spaces such as shops. That we should model good behaviour to show our care for the local community and to encourage our students to also wear masks which in turn shows their care for the local community and each other.

I'm really pissed off but before the meeting, I want to check that my employ can't mandate mask-wearing by staff outside of work, right?

@TowelStripes

Talk of disciplinary processes is premature. Go and hear what they have to say. The meeting is clearly not a formal disciplinary meeting as you haven't even been told what the allegation is!

I'm not assuming a disciplinary procedure at all but I wanted to know my way around all of the relevant policies.

@Mrgrinch

What a sad life your lime manager must lead, seriously.

She's usually pretty reasonable to be honest.

But she's been well and truly 'got' by a small but very, very vocal minority at universities who'd keep up locked-down and masked-up forever if they had their way.

I'm signing off MN for the evening now - teaching at 5pm, then a commute home where I try to go screen-free, then gym, then tea, then bed.

I will update tomorrow if/when I get a reply.

And I'll certainly let you know how Friday goes.

The email basically said that staff are 'expected and encouraged' to wear masks in enclosed areas.
Sometimes not trying to justify something is the best way.
Your basic way to go is sit and say nothing.
Let them talk.
Question Do you know why you are here ?
Answer I am unsure can you please explain?
Blah blah blah. Wear a mask.
Answer but it's not compulsary outside of work?
Blah blah blah We would like you to.
Answer, while I see I should and do wear my mask while at work, I fail to see how you reached this decision.
So are you saying it is compulsory outside of work hours?

Why do workplace feel like they own their staff ? My company has just gotten rid of all covid restrictions I the work place. Its so nice to be back to normal and have face to face meetings. We can't hide from covid, just get on with it. Your manager is a control freak.

Are you in Wales? Masks in shops are still a legal requirement - unlike in England.

Could you check to see if the shop is on land owned by the university? If it’s not part of campus as such but uni owned if you see what I mean?

Although you shouldn’t have to:::

Its not legally required in shops & the shop is not on university property so surely they have no jurisdiction over what you do there -provided its not illegal

Good luck Op - you really have done nothing wrong and do not deserve to be policed in this way.

HI OP, I’m an employment lawyer and I think you’re handling this really well.

Your employer cannot really lawfully take disciplinary action if there isn’t a written policy (and I know educational establishments well, they usually have policies for everything!) but the meeting isn’t disciplinary/formal in nature anyway.

If they do try and formalise it I would be rather surprised! It’s an interesting situation though from a legal geek point of view

You’re doing the right thing going to the meeting - if you refused then it could be a failure to follow a reasonable management instruction which would be a disciplinary offence in itself… although even I’d be tempted to tell them to sod off at the overreaction!

Also OP - please do not record the meeting.

Covert recordings are a serious breach of trust and confidence and they could lawfully dismiss you for gross misconduct if they found out.

I’m as pro-mask as can be under current circumstances but this is a colossal overreach by your manager.

I agree with the poster above: put the onus on them to explain and don’t be afraid of long silences. Let them tie themselves up in knots justifying this. You were outside the uni, in business premises where mask wearing was not required. No law was broken and no policy infringed.

Is your university one that is trying to justify still having an awful lot of its sessions online, rather than face to face for students?

If so, then it may be that they don't want unfavourable comments regarding staff being willing to be mask free and close contact in public areas but not being willing and able to teach students f2f perhaps?

Another thread with lots of wrong answers, in this case from people who think their employer cannot discipline them based on their behaviour outside work.

An employer can discipline an employee for their conduct outside work provided the conduct in question has a bearing on the working relationship, i.e. it affects their suitability for the job, or it impacts on their relationship with colleagues or customers, or it could damage the employer's reputation. So, for example, an employer can discipline an employee for inappropriate use of social media outside work.

It isn't immediately obvious that not wearing a mask in Tesco has a bearing on the working relationship but, if the university can establish that it does, they are entitled to discipline the OP. Of course, any sanctions imposed must be reasonable in the circumstances.

Just a quick update - no word back from my line manager yet. This is really unusual, normally she's pretty quick with emails. I'm not reading into it - maybe she realises she's on a hiding to nothing, maybe she's getting HR advice, maybe she's just giving me the silent treatment because I pushed back, maybe she's looking for the relevant policy. Who knows? Who cares?

Just to confirm too that I absolutely wasn't going to covertly record the meeting - I would have done it openly.

Hopefully meeting vanishes

Hi OP, keep us informed. Interesting to see how this plays out.

@Fordian

Gosh, this sounds horribly American where it appears employers can ban you from drinking any alcohol for example, at any time.

This depends very much on the situation and often, the state. And it seldom applies to "any alcohol." Some restrictions on drinking outside of work hours are, of course, valid. For example, would you want your airline pilot to knock back a few before showing up for her shift?

If someone teaches in a religious school of a religion that bans all alcohol consumption, like Southern Baptists, for example, a rule banning all alcohol consumption might be enforceable, depending on the state.

Keep us informed.
And I agree with your comment about the depressing state of affairs on critical thinking etc at universities. I’m sure they used to be or so I hear but have seen no evidence in recent years. Truly sad.

Good to have a lawyer on the thread like MrsPinkCock. Presumably from the law firm PinkCock, PinkCock, PinkCock and Smith.

Usual argument rules apply. Don't let them sidetrack you with things that aren't relevant. Bring it back to your points of "there's no policy" and "I wasn't at work".

Good luck.

@Mysterian

Good to have a lawyer on the thread like MrsPinkCock. Presumably from the law firm PinkCock, PinkCock, PinkCock and Smith.

Usual argument rules apply. Don't let them sidetrack you with things that aren't relevant. Bring it back to your points of "there's no policy" and "I wasn't at work".

Good luck.

This may surprise you, but my MN username bears no resemblance to that of my employer

@MrsPinkCock that is the most disappointing thing I've read all day

@prh47bridge

Another thread with lots of wrong answers, in this case from people who think their employer cannot discipline them based on their behaviour outside work.

An employer can discipline an employee for their conduct outside work provided the conduct in question has a bearing on the working relationship, i.e. it affects their suitability for the job, or it impacts on their relationship with colleagues or customers, or it could damage the employer's reputation. So, for example, an employer can discipline an employee for inappropriate use of social media outside work.

It isn't immediately obvious that not wearing a mask in Tesco has a bearing on the working relationship but, if the university can establish that it does, they are entitled to discipline the OP. Of course, any sanctions imposed must be reasonable in the circumstances.

@Mysterian

This poster is a lawyer and as you can see, always eminently sensible when it comes to advising people without ever going for the risky tack of telling posters any absolutes.

@Sprostongreen21

I know teachers, care workers and nhs staff that don’t wear masks out of work.

Because it's personal choice...

@Viviennemary

Decline the meeting and report msnager to HR for intimidation. And consult your union.

This and get in a union today