HGV Drives pay and conditions and driver shortage

[Kendodd]

As I understand it everyone is saying the driver shortage long predates Brexit and that Brexit just made things worse.
If this is the case then why didn't pay and conditions improve to attract more drivers years ago?

I need an economist to explain things for me

In part Because the existing lorry drivers were younger. And because regulations have toughened up over the years to limit the amount of time driving.

Brexit has a part in the story, but it’s not ‘just because of brexit’.

Now the drivers are retiring and there are no replacements because the average driver age has been 55 for aaaages.

Because we want everything as cheap as possible the result of this is margins are stripped to the bone .
So cost have to be squeezed and that filters down to paying as little as possible for logistics hence low wage .

There was something similar with dairy farmers where you could pay a bit more for milk and farmer got fair price .
Nobody cares all went for the 4 pints for £1 and left fair price farmers milk that cost more on the shelf .

I still don't understand why the shortfall didn't improve pay and conditions?

There has also been a sea change in attitude to pay and conditions in recent years. Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before things get better.

It takes everyone saying ‘no thanks’ before things improve. And there were enough people previously who were happy to accept frankly appalling rates and conditions. The new generation seem not to be such pushovers. Thank god.

Company profits need to take a hit.

It's a good question.
I've seen it argued that pay should reflect the skills needed and the pool of people who have those skills.

It seems to me that HGV drivers should be a whole lot better paid in order to attract new people. Even then it costs a fortune to train so unlikely to attract someone who is unemployed.
I know an HGV driver who left a few years ago in his late 50s. He reckons the hours and conditions are appalling and it's not all about the money.

@Kendodd

I still don't understand why the shortfall didn't improve pay and conditions?

Because capitalism doesn't actually work like that without intervention and regulation.

Prior to Brexit there was a bigger pool of labour so it was less necessary to pay more. During the pandemic fewer people have been trained up.

I have had an HGV licence for 29 years but never used it commercially. I get paid more in the job I actually do, but in any event wouldn't want to be away from home so much.

Because capitalism doesn't actually work like that without intervention and regulation.

Well, yes. I've always been very dubious that reduced regulation and the free market capitalism delivers for anyone other than the 0.0001%

I wonder if the fall of pay and conditions, not just in haulage but many other industries, is anything to do with declining union membership?

The same spies to nurses and doctors. We've known there's been an issue for ages, but sadly, even when pay is increased, it doesn't attract better UK candidates. If conditions are bad, you still lose the staff and struggle to attract good ones.

Listening to the few I’ve heard the money offered right now is attractive, if not before, but the conditions in Western Europe (his words) we’re not good for drivers.

I assume showering, eating, not getting tickets that type of thing

We want more goods too - how easy it is to get stuff delivered

Then retirement age a big one

Tbh I think we’ve become a bit lapse at thinking about people who deliver stuff across countries

One said he felt like just the vehicle really

We may as well address it as a society as they are of course needing more than that

I wonder if the fall of pay and conditions, not just in haulage but many other industries, is anything to do with declining union membership?
I don't know about union membership in the haulage sector, but elsewhere unions have done little to improve pay and conditions for those in lower skilled jobs which attracted workers from the EU. The were opposed to Brexit even though the supply of workers was keeping wages down. It was as if they stopped being on the side of workers.

The were opposed to Brexit even though the supply of workers was keeping wages down.

But even before Brexit there was a skills shortage.
In the building trades for example. Builders plumber etc complain about the famous Polish plumber, you can't get a trades person round here for love not money, haven't for years. I wanted a small kitchen extension done a few years ago, I struggled to get anyone to even have a look, when I did, I eventually got two quotes both for about £60,000 (unfinished) for a three square meter extension. £20,000 a meter, oh, and they wouldn't be able to start for 12 months.
I needed some fitted wardrobes removed recently (now) can't find anyone to do it. I did have two people booked to have a look, neither showed up. One is uncontactable the other keeps arranging then either not showing up or cancelling. I can't find anyone else.