new contract of employment - is this normal? any hr experts around

[Frazzled2207]

I've just been offered a job - I've been self employed for 4 years and before that had the same job for over a decade so it's a very long time since I actually signed a contract of employment so a bit out of touch with what's normal.

Broadly all seems in order but there are two things that seems a bit odd.
I'm obviously paraphrasing but
a. in the unlikely event that business is very quiet we have the right to reduce your hours and pay accordingly
(nothing said about notice here so theoretically they could say right then we're only going to pay you one day a week from now on?)

b. If you undertake any training courses (I guess it means externally but not actually stipulated) then if you leave after less than a year you will need to pay back 100% of the cost. And 50% of the cost if you leave between 1 and 2 years after doing the course. This will be deducted from your final salary.

Grateful for any advice!

B sounds normal but i would want that to specify training courses that are dictated by the company. I get sent on training which isn't really optional and wouldn't expect to pay for it if I left. But if the company sponsor me for a qualification i want to do i would expect the clause you quote or similar to kick in.

Not experienced a) but it sounds inadequately worded and possibly unfair. I'm not HR/legal though.

@Palavah

B sounds normal but i would want that to specify training courses that are dictated by the company. I get sent on training which isn't really optional and wouldn't expect to pay for it if I left. But if the company sponsor me for a qualification i want to do i would expect the clause you quote or similar to kick in.

Not experienced a) but it sounds inadequately worded and possibly unfair. I'm not HR/legal though.

Yes you're right it's quite different if for example I want to do a professional qualification that I want them to sponsor me for (this is very unlikely) compared with them saying I have to do training x and then potentially getting sent the bill if I leave!

B is normal.

What line of work are you in?

If it's retail, both normal stipulations.

Not retail. Related to recruitment.

Related to recruitment you say? In that case I wouldn't be happy with clause a and I wouldn't sign it.

If the event is so unlikely to happen then let them take the risk, why should it be you?

Both of those clauses are in mine and I think they are terrible but we got pressurised to sign.

The only difference is that in B, they are required to let me know in advance if the course is going to be repayable.

B is very normal.

A, new to me and I think some clarification is needed like you.

@ThisIsStartingToBoreMe

Related to recruitment you say? In that case I wouldn't be happy with clause a and I wouldn't sign it.

If the event is so unlikely to happen then let them take the risk, why should it be you?

the actual wording is pretty poor - it says that they will 'guarantee pay' but in the same breath that 'remuneration could be reduced'. It definitely needs clarity IMO!

@dalrympy

Both of those clauses are in mine and I think they are terrible but we got pressurised to sign.

The only difference is that in B, they are required to let me know in advance if the course is going to be repayable.

helpful to know that its not unheard of and yeah I think I'm going to insist on knowing in advance if any course is going to be repayable.

meant to add about the training thing - they say you don't have to pay them if you leave due to redundancy but do for any other reason.

Short time working is lawful within certain statutory provisions, detailed below.

www.gov.uk/lay-offs-short-timeworking

I don't agree with it, and we're heading towards the employment at will culture of the US.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Short time working is lawful within certain statutory provisions, detailed below.

www.gov.uk/lay-offs-short-timeworking

I don't agree with it, and we're heading towards the employment at will culture of the US.

oh that's helpful to know. That makes more sense now. Not been aware of it before.

B is normal as pp say (just don’t do training if you’re thinking of leaving!). I don’t like A either at all and would negotiate on this to have it removed. Do you have legal insurance on your house insurance? If so would be worth getting their advice on the clause and it’s legality.