Phased return to work and pay?

[ElephantOfRisk]

I suppose this may vary with different employers, but just trying to see if anyone has experience of this and how it was managed?

I've been off with workplace stress for about 5 months. I have one month left of fully paid sick leave.

I have been agreeing a phased return starting this week with doing increasing hours per week over the next 4 and a half weeks. Whilst my managers are being really flexible of how many hours I should do and over what days etc. they then said it's more important to get the number of hours roughly correct as this will go to HR and determine my pay (based on how many hours a week) and it would be better not to have to be "owing" them money back. I have to say that it never even occurred to me that I wouldn't be fully paid from my first day back, but I can see how that would be correct. They are still establishing the accuracy of this with HR but I just wondered how this worked with other people/employers.

They have suggested that it might be possible to make up the extra hours pay by way of a sick note but not sure how this works either.

I've worked for 38 years and never been off for more than the occasional day of physical illness so I have no idea really how this works or what is reasonable.

Phased returns are at full pay where I am. Your GP can do a fit note that says you need to gradually increase hours back to normal.

They legally can do this but many employers won't if the phasing is just for a few weeks. If they do would you be able to use your al (accrued while off) to make up the balance of time to ft hours for full pay.

Thank you. It may be that the managers have misinterpreted something so they are away to try to speak to HR again. I don't want to rush back and make it less sustainable and I do need my pay but I also don't want to take the pee (although I wouldn't be off sick at all if it wasn't for work I suppose). I'm not completely well but may never be so I feel I need to give it a try and I was hoping to save the weeks of sick pay I have left in case I need to be back off again. Not half use them on a reduced work return. I might be able to use holidays for that instead I think.

In my previous workplace I know it was a mix of sick pay, holiday pay and unpaid for someone who was gradually returning to work in my team. I think you might have to use some of the remaining months worth of sick pay for the days you are not going to be in. I wouldn't expect them to be paid in full and not counted as anything personally.

Thanks LIZS, HR aren't the best and I think they have simply directed managers to various policies. The company is foreign owned so don't tend to be the best in terms of contracts. I'm tuped so have generally good T&Cs. I probably need to get back onto the systems ad have a look for myself. I don't even know how much AL I have as they did talk about it having to be used if I was away at all and I was away for a week (in the UK) which actually did me more good than the rest of the time I was off. I don't know if I accrue bank holidays that I wasn't there for either. Plus I bought extra leave and had some allocated as part of a pay deal.

I'll be in every day but just not full hours. So starting off with a couple of days of 3 hours instead of 6.5. I normally do a more complex work pattern as I don't quite work full time and also do a 9 day fortnight. I guess I didn't really think about it and thought they'd be glad I was back at all even if it wasn't full time. I mean virtually my whole team couldn't work until late afternoon yesterday due to IT issues but ovs still got paid. IT issues are a regular occurance and tbh are part of the reason I ended up off.

We pay for hours worked and sick pay hours - so if you had used up all your sick pay you would only be paid for hours worked.

Same as Naptimenow. I am managing a phased return for someone and he’s getting full pay for the hours worked but reduced pay for the hours not worked as he’s exhausted his full pay entitlement. It’s not going to be long before he goes to no pay for the hours not worked because he will have exhausted his reduced sick pay soon too!

My place you would only get paid for hours worked on a phased return, staff would use accrued holidays to make up the shortfall.
People would be phased back in over a 2 or 3 week period.
What sort of work do you do, could you ask to go on "light duties" my place is manufacturing firm so shop floor staff stand up all day but staff could be put on light duties, a sitting down job or helping out in the office.
Check out you employee handbook

Thanks folks, I've no idea why none of this occurred to me. I guess if I've accrued my holidays then I'd most likely want to use those rather than sick leave or reduced pay. I think I should have enough. I suppose just because it's stress that was caused by work I feel a little aggrieved. I also spent an hour and a half on a call with managers today plus lots of shorter meetings over the last few months and I'm not charging them for those. It's not like I've been having a jolly holiday.

I've asked for a bit less responsibility initially but it's an audit type job so unfortunately there isn't really too much that they can reduce and me still do the job. I struggle with concentration/focus and I suppose motivation now too. I've only recently been able to follow a programme for an hour. When I went off I was having panic attacks, heart palpitations, stomach problems, I could barely swallow, was losing hair, couldn't sleep, was "frozen" for hours at a time where i just couldn't do anything or at other points I'd be pacing the house to the tune of 10 thousand steps and much more. Now I'm just generally anxious and worried that if I try to go too fast I'll be off again. I'd like to keep what remains of my sick leave in case I just need to take some short respite time off. I do understand the point now, it just hadn't occurred to me and I think maybe I'm still not firing on full cylinders mentally.

I can't access any staff handbook type information directly as all the information is on-line on the company intranet and the log in equipment and passwords I need are unavailable until i'm back.

Your GP can do a fit note that says you need to gradually increase hours back to normal.

That doesn't mean you're entitled to receive pay for hours you're not working. It just means if employer can't accommodate the suggested phased return you are still signed off and would continue to receive SSP if eligible.

Just like reducing from full time hours to part time means a pay cut.

It's a bit shit, but this is how being ill or disabled works in the UK.

I've never had an employer that paid more than a couple of weeks of sickness, so if you're off long enough to need a phased return you would only be paid for the hours worked.

Unless you work somewhere like the NHS with months and months of sickness pay.

Okay, i've just had an email from my manager confirming that with a supporting fit note, i can use sick pay to make up the hours and that the hours that I work whilst on sick pay will be added together and added to the remaining sick pay I have, so, as an easy example, if i work half of my hours over the 4 weeks then i'd have 2 weeks of sickness absence used instead of 4. Hopefully it will be more than half my hours used as the last week of the return i'd expect to be almost full time and my first week will be only a little less than half time.

@legoriakelne

Your GP can do a fit note that says you need to gradually increase hours back to normal.

That doesn't mean you're entitled to receive pay for hours you're not working. It just means if employer can't accommodate the suggested phased return you are still signed off and would continue to receive SSP if eligible.

Just like reducing from full time hours to part time means a pay cut.

It's a bit shit, but this is how being ill or disabled works in the UK.

I've never had an employer that paid more than a couple of weeks of sickness, so if you're off long enough to need a phased return you would only be paid for the hours worked.

Unless you work somewhere like the NHS with months and months of sickness pay.

Yes, it's really crap for some folk and what employers provide. I've been really lucky in having 6 months pay available and they've also said I do have the option of an income replacement plan which would pay half pay until I was either able to return to work or retired which is good but to be honest I just want to go back to work and try to do a decent job for my pay. It's very specialised so it's not like there are lots of jobs available that I could move to, i'd need to take a large pay cut and probably travel to do another job but equally they find it hard to recruit experienced people so I think they'd want to retain me also. I've always performed well up until this. Occupational Health have said it's possibly related to post viral issues from Covid.

@ElephantOfRisk

I've asked for a bit less responsibility initially but it's an audit type job so unfortunately there isn't really too much that they can reduce and me still do the job. I struggle with concentration/focus and I suppose motivation now too. I've only recently been able to follow a programme for an hour. When I went off I was having panic attacks, heart palpitations, stomach problems, I could barely swallow, was losing hair, couldn't sleep, was "frozen" for hours at a time where i just couldn't do anything or at other points I'd be pacing the house to the tune of 10 thousand steps and much more. Now I'm just generally anxious and worried that if I try to go too fast I'll be off again. I'd like to keep what remains of my sick leave in case I just need to take some short respite time off. I do understand the point now, it just hadn't occurred to me and I think maybe I'm still not firing on full cylinders mentally.

I'm sure they are glad to have you back. Paying you for the time you're working doesn't negate that.

The IT issue isn't comparable. Your colleagues were all at work and available to work, but employer has no work for them due to IT. The nature of employment contract is that you still get paid for your contracted hours even if your employer gives you no work.

You're not available for your normal full hours and not able to work in that time irrespective of IT.

Have you had an occupational health assessment? I can't see that you've mentioned it.

You have been off for a significant while caused by workplace issues that may or may not have resolved, you say you don't feel well enough to return, and you have concerns that your role may no longer be suitable.

This is really concerning. A GP (or HR officer) is not placed to assess whether your previous role can be performed or what reasonable adjustments you may be eligible for / need.

Given how long you have been off and how you are still feeling, going back too soon without OH input to ensure it is the right time, the right phasing and the right adjustments could set you back further. I do appreciate the reasons you have given for wanting to go back now but it could do more harm than good if it's done badly.

Realistically, if your workplace caused your illhealth and nothing has changed in that respect, is going back to work there in the same role going to be achievable without causing you more harm?

Do you feel able to go back to work, or returning as you only have limited sick pay left?
We would initiate a phased return using sick pay to top up the short hours, but when sick pay runs out, then you would only be paid for the hours worked

This period of illness in no way undermines anything you have accomplished in your career. Even if it has left you changed it does not diminish your achievements or the person that you are.

The way your employer handles this does not alter those things either. It is not a value judgement on your worth as a person.

It may be wise to have a look at their capability policy as well as any policies on disability. Also think about whether there may be alternative roles in the organisation you could be redeployed to if you are no longer able to do your previous role or if the adjustments you would need to stay in that role are not feasible.

If you're uncertain about your employment rights in this don't forget you can speak to Acas for advice.

Better to be prepared and informed. It will help you make better decisions and to feel more in control, which will hopefully reduce any further unnecessary stress.

Well said lego

To be honest you don't like you think you are well enough to return. Wanting to go back to work and being fit enough to go back to work are not the same thing. I think you need to be assessed by occ health before you return.

Thank you all so much, for some reason I didn't see that there were more responses. I have had an evaluation by occ health both relatively early to being off and again a couple of weeks ago. I had a meeting with management and went through a stress risk assessment. They have confirmed that a number of affecting factors have been changed (reverted to old procedures/reduced number of reviews/removed cross account working/a colleague and I will work together to complete our reviews allowing me to concentrate and work more on areas of the job i find easier and less on the rest (colleague is fine with this as our areas of enjoyment match well). I'm just doing 3 hours a day for the first week or so and then building up but as the hours increase i'm going to work either side of a lunch break. Technically i'm working now (started yesterday) but laptop is doing a million updates and restarts so not really able to do much.

I have found out that I have lots of holidays to take and am waiting to establish if I'm able to carry more than 5 over to next year but my thinking is that I'll replace the hours not worked with annual leave and keep my sick leave for now.

Honestly I don't know if I am ready to be back or not but I'm willing to give it a go. My 3 hours yesterday were pretty frantic with whatsApp, messenger, emails and calls with lots of different people trying to get my laptop to log in. My head was buzzing by the end and I definitely couldn't have done more. Today is quieter as I just need to let the machine do what it needs to.

I've had a build up of anxiety but I've mostly been able to calm it. The difference from before is that i really just slid into it before getting worse and worse and not really engaging with people to say that i'm struggling, now I am aware of the signs and have people checking in on me so i don't need to start a conversation from a dark place and out of the blue.

I really hope it's sustainable, i'd like to feel that I was doing a decent job. I am a member of my union too so I have places to go if I don't think i'm being treated properly. I'm happy that, despite maybe the company not having the most nurturing culture, that my management team do and want the best outcome for me - whatever that may be.

I do appreciate all your comments, truthfully I could probably have done with another few months off but i'm hoping careful management of the situation by me and others will mean I still get back to full strength soon.

Also, the amount of holidays I have left should allow for me to work shorter weeks for the rest of the year. I'm being counted as an extra in the team as far as plans are concerned so should be no issue with doing this. My colleague does a 4 day week so if we are working together, they've suggested i might take the same day off as she does (suggested for the phased return but sure that might be ok to extend)

There is lots there that sounds positive.

If it helps, last time I returned to work after months off for a physical problem I remember the anxiety in the early days being intense. It is a big deal. If you can take care of yourself through this initial spike, it will ease to your normal baseline and your usual coping skills will be enough.

I hope the next weeks and months go well for you.