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Original poster

Is it impossible to get sacked in the NHS?

59 replies

Qwerty202 · 07/09/2021 06:26

That's what a colleague told me. Said colleague has had over 4 month's off sick.
I've only been in the NHS a few months, I'm enjoying my role and by all accounts have received good feedback about my performance. A few colleagues have said to me it's impossible to get sacked, sickness isn't taken seriously. I've had to wfh the last two days as my daughter is unwell and I can't send her to childcare. My manager was completely fine about it, didn't even mention I had to take it off as leave..
Just wondering why the benchmark is so low... Does anyone else who works in the NHS feel the same?

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 07/09/2021 06:30

No because I've sacked someone in the NHS.

Do you think you should be sacked for working from home for 2 days? Are you gearing up to make sure that other people in your team work/manage the way you think they should?

VerveClique · 07/09/2021 06:33

It's not impossible but it's rare.

There's very generous sick pay for a start, and a presumption of 'entitlement' to exhaust paid sick leave in a lot of cases

Because it's a caring profession, there is a presumption of support and 'wait and see' in most cases'

There is a general lack of skill and case management in a lot of HR departments

Quite often HR departments allow Trade Unions to set the pace regarding meetings with staff. Your union rep isn't available for 4 weeks? OK we'll wait then.

A lot of Exec Teams and Boards have a misplaced sense of risk. There is a view that employment tribunals must be avoided at. all. costs. Even if that means that services are understaffed, good people leave, and other people go off sick at all costs.

Getting a 'settlement agreement' where cases are stuck or marginal is indeed nigh-on impossible. AFAIK permission has to be sought from the Treasury.

Original poster
Qwerty202 · 07/09/2021 06:35

No not really. I work very hard and I manage being a lone parent and working as best as I can. Childcare never let's me down, I've just not been able to send her as she's unwell. I was just shocked that several people had said its impossible to get sacked. In my team, everyone has had at least one period of no less than four weeks off longterm sick.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 07/09/2021 06:40

Shit managers certainly exist and it's difficult to recruit in our area so there's more pressure to keep staff.

ZealAndArdour · 07/09/2021 06:46

Have you thought that maybe a lot of people in the NHS are under immense physical and emotional pressures that come with a toll to both the body and the mind and that they’re are legitimately off sick because they’re fucking unwell?

You sound a bit wet behind the ears, but you’ll see one day when your job is sucking the life out of you and stealing the joy from every other aspect of your life, or when you’ve injured yourself or been assaulted by an angry patient or verbally abused over and over again. And that’s without taking into account any naturally occurring physically illness that could strike any one of us at any moment.

Stircraazy · 07/09/2021 06:51

With employment laws it is hard to sack anyone anywhere in the uk.

serialname · 07/09/2021 06:51

The NHS does dismiss people, but there is a formal process for doing so that usually involves opportunities to improve their attendance or performance first.

multiplemum3 · 07/09/2021 06:53

I've sacked someone in the NHS, whilst their Bradford index was the worst I've ever seen it was nothing to do with that.

notthemum · 07/09/2021 07:00

Sorry, not much help these days but many years ago it differed. I worked in physical and mental health, took a couple of days sick here and there (as people do when they are young). Got severely bollocked over it.
But I proved myself to be valuable to the team and it quickly blew over.
We had a qualified nurse came to work with us. He was an alcoholic, (would come in (when he could get up) at 8ish in the morning pissed. He begged for a lift back to nurses home one lunch time, wasn't around to be collected on my way back, turned up about an hour or so later pissed as a fart. Had some dinner - we were not allowed. Had a sleep. Tea time (5PM ish) he mixed up the the drugs and didn't know what he had given out. I had to make a statement.
NHS paid for him to go to private rehab at least twice whilst I was there and I believe once or twice after I had left. Eventually they sacked him but this was a long process from start to finish.
Used to be, once you were in you could usually stay.

LegendaryReady · 07/09/2021 07:11

My BIL was off sick on full pay for two years before he was given ill health retirement on a full pension at 56.

Is that a good supportive employer doing the right thing for an employee with long service or a mickey take with taxpayer's money. I'm not sure TBH.

Ill health is actually one of the easiest things to sack someone for in any organisation. I work in school and that's the one way we do get rid of poor staff (poor sickness record often goes alongside). Sacking someone for incompetence or general poor performance is much harder.

Auroreforet · 07/09/2021 07:11

I worked with someone who was eventually sacked.
Took years though.
He was a consummate liar.
Would turn up for work on time but then invent an emergency so he could leave after 30 minutes.
He overstepped the mark by fraudulently altering his annual leave.
So was sacked for theft.

MichelleScarn · 07/09/2021 07:15

Sorry to ask, are you admin in a MH team? There's a poster who's recently started in a team like this who keeps popping threads on that are quite disparaging about the NHS in general and their colleagues .

TheLovleyChebbyMcGee · 07/09/2021 07:19

I work in the NHS and had a work colleague sacked, but they were truly awful. Blasé about the importance of tasks, taking very long extended breaks, lying to managers about things and generally being rubbish. They were retrained but the lying continued so the official channels were followed and they were rightly let go. Oh, and another was caught working in a shop in tin while off on long time sick leave!

However, once you've got your feet in, you have to really fuck up to be fired, and only if you then lie and try and cover it up/manipulate the evidence etc it seems.

If its a mistake and you take it to your manager and help to rectify it and be open to retraining etc it'll be fine.

It's both great and frustrating tbh, I have a colleague who consistently takes double the amount of time to others to do tasks, and is constantly just fannying around, but that all seems fine as they've been there for like 25 years!

Zilla1 · 07/09/2021 07:22

Absolutely not impossible though I am frequently seeing this mentioned in social media. My colleagues and I think this is presumably part of an orchestrated campaign to undermine the NHS. Along with 'why don't any GPs see patients', 'why are all the wards empty' and so on.

gunnersgold · 07/09/2021 07:24

No! I know someone who was let go !

NerrSnerr · 07/09/2021 07:27

I have worked in the NHS for 29 years and haven't seen many people sacked. A couple have quit before the final disciplinary meeting, a few have been medically retired (after being found drinking on duty in one case). I know of one person who went back to the same job after a period of suspension from the NMC after defrauding the NHS a fair amount of money.

daisypond · 07/09/2021 07:28

No, there’s a lot of scapegoating and arse-covering, where people cover up mistakes and protect their own backs. I know people who were sacked. I actually think it’s quite a corrupt organisation.

rwalker · 07/09/2021 07:33

It's very difficult for a number of reasons
The union is shit hot and normally there will be some procedural fuck up that makes the discipline process void .

Most of the time it's theft or sickness ( the sickness policy and pay is way very generous compared to the norm)

Monty27 · 07/09/2021 07:33

Of course you can be sacked as long as you don't lie
And if you're a liar don't think you have protection even as a trade union member
Genuine people get support not piss takers
I'm by no means accusing you OP but being an NHS employee is a respectful status

JudgeRindersMinder · 07/09/2021 07:34

@Stircraazy

With employment laws it is hard to sack anyone anywhere in the uk.
Because of this, on 2 occasions my dh’s workplace have gone through a redundancy process in order to get rid of a couple of individuals.

Well played tactic by the employer, but hell for everyone else who has to go through a very real threat of redundancy. It only became apparent that the process was used to get rid of an individual after the second time it happened.

StrongArm · 07/09/2021 07:37

@Stircraazy

With employment laws it is hard to sack anyone anywhere in the uk.
That's not true. Under 2 years employment there is no unfair dismissal and it's incredibly easy. You can just give notice and sack someone.

After 2 years I would agree, it's more difficult but certainly not impossible!

gmailconfusion2 · 07/09/2021 07:38

I know someone who was sacked for fraud, she was falsely claiming overtime for work she did during the she week, however have a colleague who's been off nearly 3 out of the last four years, and doing explicit photography on the side, nothing done about her, even when her Facebook shows she's on joliday/partying when she's in bed with flu/bad back/whatever the latest excuse is

Patapouf · 07/09/2021 07:42

Of course you can be sacked, the nhs just doesn't have a dickhead private sector approach to staff (in all senses at least).

A good employer should always offer extended paid leave for sickness, and I would imagine the nhs is best situated to determine whether that sickness is genuine.

Booknooks · 07/09/2021 07:43

Of course people can for gross misconduct, or if another procedure needs to be followed due to poor performance or attendance. Being off for 4 months is within the policy, so no, someone wouldn't be sacked, they would require a doctors note though so I'm not sure why you'd question why it's weird someone wouldn't be sacked for legitimately being off sick just because some are shite in the private sector. It's been such a challenging time, with covid managers are more than aware of the issues arising from children being poorly and usual support networks not as easy to access/having to isolate etc, would you rather than demanded you take it as leave? If you were off regularly they wouldn't be so accommodating, but it just shows how crap a lot of other employers out that this is shocking.

Lots of people have anecdotes about I worked with x who was awful yet they couldn't fire them. They absolutely can, but it needs to follow the correct procedure which many managers don't do from the outset so it causes issues down the line when the issue doesn't resolve or escalates. But people have been fired before.

EgonSpengler2020 · 07/09/2021 07:44

No, if you book sick with sudden illness rather than long term stress or an injury that has been treated but means you can't fulfill your role for example and then post pictures of yourself, at an international sports event, on Facebook you can definitely get sacked. The NHS is pretty hot on fraud.

Also if you want confirmation of people in the NHS being sacked (although they may have resigned during the investigation period) then read a few tribunal write ups on the HCPC site where the outcome was "struck-off".