Equal pay?

[Equalpayquery]

Evening wise ones. We are recruiting another staff member at work, to do an identical job to mine (same salary scale, same job description and person spec). We are going to second interviews, with all male candidates. Great candidates and I’d be happy to work with all of them. But here’s the rub, it’s highly likely they will be brought in on a higher salary than me, say 10%, mostly because I came from public sector and these guys are coming from private sector and already earn more. Just wondering whether the equal pay section of the equalities act kicks in or not. All over the company men and women are paid differently based on experience, but arguably it’s a niche role, I originated it, and currently I’m the only person who can perform it to the letter (those coming in have highly relevant skills, but will have areas to develop). I don’t want to rock the boat if there is no case, but at the same time if there is a legal issue I don’t want to just say nothing. Thoughts from people in the know appreciated!!

Currently I am the only person in the company with my job title and post. So there would be two of us, one male and one female, with the woman (me) on roughly 10% less pa

I would start by having an informal word with your boss just to let them know it's on your radar... see what they come up with?

Thanks, I absolutely don’t want to have a falling out. Perhaps I’ll gently drop it into conversation when he starts negotiating pay. He’s a really good guy.

I know that there can be differences in pay for ‘legitimate reasons’ but I can’t find information on what those would be.

It strikes me that usually it just amounts to men negotiating better because they have traditionally earned more. But that’s just perpetuating the issue. I think I have a better chance of being listened to with only two roles, in a team with a breadth of experience it would be harder.

Bump for the morning crowd

You could lodge a claim for equal pay. However, the employer would probably argue that the difference in pay is due to a material factor (the difficulty of recruiting someone in the current job market) and is not tainted by direct or indirect sex discrimination (for example, if the justification is that the candidates have negotiated better, that is likely to be indirect sex discrimination). If a female candidate from the private sector would also be offered 10% more than you are currently paid, you don't have a case.

Having said that, if you put aside the sex discrimination angle, you certainly do have an argument that you should be paid at least as much as a new recruit who is similarly qualified and won't be able to do the job as well as you. I would approach it from that angle unless you have any evidence that the difference is due to your sex.

Having said that, if you put aside the sex discrimination angle, you certainly do have an argument that you should be paid at least as much as a new recruit who is similarly qualified and won't be able to do the job as well as you. I would approach it from that angle unless you have any evidence that the difference is due to your sex.

This. And dont raise it weakly. And not when they are already in role. Raise it now

Thank you. Yes the issue is primarily that they will be paid more (regardless of sex - I would feel the same about a woman), and that I’m not happy with that as our work should be of equal value to the business.

You should be of more value assuming that you are more experienced and will be training them up. Use it to negotiate a nice raise. Good luck OP 🍀

Employers are happy to let incumbent pay drift downwards and then have to catch up when recruiting.

However I would ask out and out whether it likely the new person will be on the same pay or less given your experience.

Don't wait and assume the fairness gods will come to your aid.

Also never disclose current salary in a new job. You are not obliged to.

Not a legal expert but from a pay negotiation perspective I would just ask for a pay rise to match or in fact exceed the incoming more novice person. Request a 15% pay rise so that your pay reflects your seniority and ability to do the role and also longer term working for the company. Can frame it as experience/skill without ever having to bring up the equal pay act. You should be paid more than this newcomer and the fact that you came from somewhere where you were previously paid less is irrelevant.

All this is quite eye opening and I guess a lot of you work in the private sector? I’m in the public sector, so despite knocking it out of the park this year, no pay rise. It is quite common for internally promoted staff members to be paid less than external hires in my organisation, often with the difference being bottom vs top of pay scale. We have a pay policy that dictates how much progression can be made, but reality is it’s designed to keep the wage bill down as often as possible. We are not NHS but similar restrictions on pay apply, public sector also.

If public sector the rules I have seen applied are:

• internal transfer/promotion = stay on salary/promotion pay rules apply.
• externally advertised role and successful = market rate.

Next time the role is advertised externally, apply and if successful you should get the higher market rate salary. The justification is you have been tested against the market so entitled to market rate.

Talk to your manager about candidates being offered higher rate and if no luck ask what would happen if you applied for external advertised role. If they say you would get the market rate then confirm it in writing.

@Alpinechalet it’s worse than that where I am - internal candidates get transferred according to the pay policy (so with the smallest pay rise possible) even if the role was advertised externally! I’m not sure how it’s legal tbh. And I know that in some teams there are a bunch of people who have been at the organisation for a long time at the bottom of their band, and a bunch of newcomers at/near the top. But this is a small team, so far just me. So I am able to make a direct comparison with the new person hence wondering whether equal pay would be a good challenge.

On the basis that you were recruited via an external campaign then you do have a potential equal pay claim. It is more complicated than that, so talk to ACAS and your TU.

Thanks @Alpinechalet. Argh. So frustrating. Also as a woman who has ‘pleaser’ tendencies I am always stuck not wanting to be any trouble, not wanting to cause a fuss.

That said, I have successfully argued for pay increase outside of the pay policy for other people and so I know that it is possible.

[quote Equalpayquery]@Alpinechalet it’s worse than that where I am - internal candidates get transferred according to the pay policy (so with the smallest pay rise possible) even if the role was advertised externally! I’m not sure how it’s legal tbh. And I know that in some teams there are a bunch of people who have been at the organisation for a long time at the bottom of their band, and a bunch of newcomers at/near the top. But this is a small team, so far just me. So I am able to make a direct comparison with the new person hence wondering whether equal pay would be a good challenge.[/quote]
There is nothing in the law that requires internal candidates to be paid as much as external candidates. Being an internal candidate is not a protected characteristic.

Having said that, given that you are now telling us this goes wider than just a single post, if it is the case that existing employees are mainly women whereas those recruited on higher salaries are mainly men, you may have an equal pay claim. You may have a case if your employer is unable to show that there is a recruitment problem requiring them to pay higher salaries to external candidates. Also, if "market forces" are leading to your employer importing pay discrimination, that may give you a case.

You’re right of course. There is nothing illegal about that, I was being flippant. But it does grate that once you’re inside you are valued less. I’m particularly sore about this because the main reason the team can expand is because I have worked my arse off. I originated this role.

But I’m just feeling my way here, so I’m grateful for all advice given. To me it feels wrong at a very base level, but I don’t know the best route to counter it.

I think I would have been less bothered at my old place where pay progression meant I would have had an annual raise (also public sector). This place doesn’t, and we have a pay freeze so it’s not clear how I would reach the salary of my peer. Before it was just a case of waiting it out; someone at the top of the scale was stuck whereas I at the bottom would be working my way up. It’s true that if they are hired at the top they will be stuck here too, but the mechanism for moving up doesn’t exist right now (but it was implied that it did when I negotiated, in fact my boss said I think would be good when I asked for more because it will mean you get a higher pay rise next year - but covid).