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Starting up a business - am I mad?

12 replies

SquiffyonSnowballs · 26/11/2007 13:25

I have for a while been kicking round an idea in my head which I think might work, but could equally be a very expensive disaster. If I go for it, the start-up costs could well eat up every single piece of equity I have spent 20 years building, up so please come back with honest feedback if you think I am about to make a really stupid mistake.

Anyway, I have been thinking of setting up what could probably be best described as A 'gentlemen's club' type place for wealthy parents, in London, aimed primarily at those 40-something divorced dads who have kids, but haven't a clue what to do with them at weekends (and don't like keeping them cooped up in small bachelor pad that only has vodka in the fridge). The bankers/lawyers I know who fit the profile end up dumming down at naff places like the Troc, or dragging the poor things along to Cannons. I'm thinking expensive annual fees, au-pairs kicking aorund to help play with the kids, and various 'zones' (ie one place where dad & the older kids can do normal stuff like play scrabble together, whilst an au-pair overseas the youngest in a soft play bit and the middle kid flits between dad and the library where he's doing homework. That sort of thing, with them all having lunch and doing some stuff (eg afternoon film screening) together . Then to make the place work for its money you would probably run a nursery or stuff like yoga classes or whatever during the week (when focus would be much more female-focused).

The dads I know who have second marriages and stuff (or even those happily married but who only really see their kids at the w/e) want to spend quality time with their kids but seem to find it impossible when their kids have large age differences etc, and I also find that they don't seem to 'plan' their weekends, so it all ends up a bit flat, with them wandering round doing nothing much every weekend.

The atmosphere would probably be more starbucky than stuffy club, and the money would come mostly from the annual fees. Fees would have to be be high as the aim would be to have people stay for 4-5 hours (over lunch or dinner) so you couldn't achieve a decent return on food/drink alone. Then you would also aim to generate income from either leasing the premises Mon-Friday for a nursery, or selling space for girly stuff like upscale coffee-mornings, yoga classes etc (and use the au-pairs to look after the kids whilst they relax). If it really worked well, you would also sell space for other people to run complimentary services eg travel agents(specialising in family holidays of course) or 'concierge' services.

Biggest problems I see are
(1) Start up costs will be huge
(2) difficult to get appropriate premises
(3) Are there enough people of the type I am aiming for?
(4) My kids are young and very outdoorsy so I don't know how city kids would take to something like this - would they get bored after a few visits and refuse to go?
(5) How high can the fees go? If we take an expensive gym as a guide my guess is they rely on 5 times as many members as they could realistically service (if they all came regularly) and that the average stay at the gym would be 2 hours. I need to assume stays of double this, and probably less than half the number of members (as I guess frequency of use would be greater than for an average gym member). so the breakeven point is going to be close to the regular maximum revenue. The ability to generate higher spend per visit (lunches & lattes etc) would be better than a gym, and I guess the weekday usage will also potentially bring in cash (from leasing premises/running creches or whatever), but it will be close in terms of whether this could fly.

My gut feeling is that the economy is heading downwards faster than people suspect so if I am to do it the timing is fairly good: 12-18 months to pull the plan together, by which time commercial property is going to be at very bottom of the cylce so investment costs will be as low as they are going to be and we can then refurbish to market on the upturn of the economy...

In terms of experience I am an accountant/banker with a masters in HR (well, half a masters, but will be finishing soon), and I supported myself throughout school/uni in hotel work & running bars, so I have a bit of relevant experience but not much.

I would be very keen on finding out if anyone knows of anythign similar that already exists (I guess closest would be places like Babington House?). also, if anyone knows how the costs/revenues of a gym operation stack up then that would be invaluable. I need to make a call on whether to invest a significant amount of time in the groundwork needed to formulate a proper business plan, or to forget the idea and stick with the day job. I also suspect this could all just be a mid-life crisis...

All comments very much appreaciated - even those that tell me I am up my own backside and this idea stinks

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Anna8888 · 26/11/2007 13:41

Squiffy - I think you need to do some market research. Your point (3) is the most critical one to address - what is the size of your target market, what are its needs and how much money does it have to spend on the services you are offering.

You can't address your points (1) and (2) until you have a good grasp of your potential market.

orangina · 26/11/2007 13:52

They have opened something that sounds a bit like what you are describing in Kensington, though it hasn't been marketed at the weekend dads, just an alternative to the obvious soft play areas, and reassuringly middle class. Look at maggieandrose.com

They launched a few months ago and I meant to go and have a look at it, but I haven't as frankly I haven't got the cash to spare. Worth having a look and seeing how they do it; whether they are succesful or not, I wouldn't know.

Although the economy may be on the way down (and I think you are probably right) and commercial property might therefore be less expensive, a recession will hit the middle classes quite hard i think and what with school fees seeming to go up about 15% pa and childcare costs going up too, who knows whether what you are proposing might become a luxury that many won't be able to afford. The super rich will of course continue to get richer, but they won't use what you are suggesting (I don't think).

Good luck and tell us how your idea progresses!

orangina · 26/11/2007 13:55

could you make it cool enough to double up as a cobden club type venue in the evenings? I would imagine that might stack up costwise more easily. I went to a 2nd b'day party in soho house's chiswick outpost earlier this year... seems to straddle the kids and grown ups quite well. Possibly worth looking at that too in terms of what it offers and how it is used.

SquiffyonSnowballs · 26/11/2007 14:41

Orangina - thanks so much - I will check out the Kensington place - that sounds pretty much like my idea (though mine wasn't planning on all those classes). well worth a visit.

I am not sure about the evening stuff yet - was thinkingof offering some kind of babysitting/sleepover thing but then the regulations probably stop that being cost effective so I might look at adult classes (though don't think I'll go the Maggie/Rose route - Pole dancing on a Tuesday!)

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orangina · 26/11/2007 15:53

haha, yes i noticed the pole dancing thing and wondered if i had imagined it...!

orangina · 26/11/2007 15:54

more primrose hill than kensington i think....!

fridayschild · 26/11/2007 20:00

If you are going for the over-paid types how about some support for the mamas on maternity leave with their babes in arms, who are Bf but exhausted because baby does not sleep through the night? Somewhere nice baby could play/sit and be cooed at while you had a nap would be great - a sort of Woolley Grange in London. there are beauty salons with a creche but really all I ever wanted was to sleep...

SquiffyonSnowballs · 27/11/2007 09:16

Now that is a really good idea, FC, and I could even extend it to not just newborns - my DD is 14 months old, and when I am work I fantasise about spending my lunch hour in a dark room somewhere with just me and a duvet...

Having resurrected the idea yesterday, my head is now full of ideas, and I'm hoping that others will post their comments (good or bad). I have some time off at Christmas so will see if I can get a proper outline together and start off some market research. I'll head to Maggie&Rose and also will make sure my next business trip is with Virgin - in my head I imagine the place being a little like their clubspace at Heathrow (lots of different zones, lots of light)

Any further comments would be appreciated...

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wannaBe · 27/11/2007 09:39

?The dads I know who have second marriages and stuff (or even those happily married but who only really see their kids at the w/e) want to spend quality
time with their kids.?. This is part of the problem I have with this idea. If they?re bringing the kids to this place and some of them are being supervised by an au-pair, then that doesn?t constitute someone spending quality time with their child imo.

Also I think that if you want people to pay for an expensive membership you would have to have a huge range of activities to ensure that people would want to come back week on week. Because the reality is that they could play scrabble at home for free, could take the younger kids to softplay for .. maybe a fiver max, and could rent a dvd for £2.50, and chances are they wouldn?t want to do that every weekend. And once kids get to about secondary age they don?t really want to be spending time with their parents anyway so this club would be very much aimed at primary level, and there are lots of indoor play areas with activities to suit all age ranges that also serve food.

You?d also need to look at what insurances etc you would require. If you?re going to have au-pairs looking after young children you will need a lot of public liability insurance, also would need to see what is required re CRB checks etc for employees, and will need to adhere to adult/child ratios for supervision, eg 1-3 for babies, 1-5 for under threes etc ? you will need a lot of staff to ensure you can meet the demand. And needing a lot of staff means needing a lot of customers to pay for them etc.

Anna8888 · 27/11/2007 11:28

When my partner was a single father he used to take the boys to his sports club (very much a family place) where they could have lunch, play ping-pong, swim, play tennis etc. But they never spent that much time there.

paow · 27/11/2007 13:37

Hi ya, I also think that to make your idea work you need lots of money to have something different every time and something very exciting. We are talking of rich kids that might be very spoiled and used to getting what they want (not all I'm sure) but most.

Something that London is lacking of is mother and baby cafes. I've been told of a very succesful one in Fulham with plenty of room for mums to have coffee and chat while nursery nurses entertain their babies with activities throught the day. The charge per child is £2 I think plus they sell yummy food. The only thing is that the insurance might be expensive.

Honestly, these kind of places would make a fortune if there was one in every wealthy area of London. Mums are sooo bored and always looking for somwhere to go and relax with their kids.
I live in Greenwich/blackheath and there is nowhere to go, there are hundreds of mums with young babies (go to the picturehouse on a friday morning and you'll see what I mean!)

I would start my own business doing this but haven't got the cash

Good luck

SquiffyonSnowballs · 27/11/2007 15:22

Lots of food for thought form everyone - thanks. Maybe I am trying to be too ambitious and the mother/baby route could eb the way forward. Heaven knows I can empathise with the lack of dedicated facilities (you know it's bad when the run-down & filthy soft play centre turns out to be the best option available in your area on a wet day )

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