Retrained after kids, 39 and can’t find work

[Livinthedream84]

When my youngest started school I went to uni in my 30s to hopefully start a career. I got a good degree, I did a masters then a PGCE. Teaching jobs are thin on the ground where I live and I couldn’t cope with working 80 hours a week for 35 hours pay.

It was crippling so I decided to look for jobs that were related to my degree. No luck. I’ve searched for jobs related to my masters, they all want 3 year experience. I’m now sat thinking what the hell do I do because my kids are growing up and I need a job??

I’ve applied for unskilled work and it’s just either I don’t have experience, I’m over qualified or they just don’t get back to you. I’ve been asked about gaps in employment before uni and raising a family doesn’t seem to go down well as an excuse.

I guess I’m asking for ideas on what to try next? Has anyone been in this situation and been successful in finding work?

@F107

I have a teaching background, MA etc. I wanted more freedom and in all honest more money, esp now I am a mum. I've set up my own charity and the trustees have agreed I can be paid as the project manager whilst were establishing ourselves. We've just secured 3 grants and I'm going to be earning just over £17,000 for 3 months work.

I've seen a number of project assistant vacancies for educational/arts charities at £5000 for 20 days work.

Morally, that sounds terrible. How can people justify earning that much from charity work.

Morally, that sounds terrible. How can people justify earning that much from charity work.

Working for a charity isn't "charity work", it's working for a charity. You still have bills to pay, families to support etc. It's a strange mindset that people have that those working for charities don't deserve to be fairly paid for the often specialist skills and value they bring to an important cause. Underpaying those in the charity sector leads to talent drain and is a reason why while there are so many charities that are very well run, there are also a lot run by well-meaning amateurs.

Why do we pay the CEO of a financial services company £200k+ to help rich people avoid paying tax, and the CEO of a children's charity supporting children in poverty £50k?

"We have a visceral reaction to the idea that anyone would make very much money helping other people. Interestingly we don't have a visceral reaction to the idea that people would make a lot of money NOT helping other people" - Dan Palotta

I think it's because we don't associate charity necessarily with business as such, and feel that if an organisation is set up to help people then they should be the ones to benefit rather than the person posting on MN about setting up her own charity and earning £17K in 3 months - which is a fair amount of money.

From being a volunteer with a charity and seeing how the money filters through I know how it works though.

@MaMelon

I think it's because we don't associate charity necessarily with business as such, and feel that if an organisation is set up to help people then they should be the ones to benefit rather than the person posting on MN about setting up her own charity and earning £17K in 3 months - which is a fair amount of money.

From being a volunteer with a charity and seeing how the money filters through I know how it works though.

That's exactly the problem - charities are businesses and unless we invest in the overheads then the beneficiaries are worse off. I also work for a charity, having come from the private sector in a skilled job - and retaining talent is a huge problem. Ultimately the beneficiaries suffer because of it. At the charity I work at we're transparent about our costs and our supporters overwhelmingly trust us. But we're still underpaid by industry standards.

Watch the Dan Palotta ted talk he explains it perfectly.

charities are businesses

Not all charities, and certainly not the one that I'm involved in. I agree with you to a point, but I do feel there are cases where the beneficiaries don't benefit as they should and there's a case for strengthening the governing bodies (OSCR in our case) who have a huge remit and not enough resources.

Conscious also that this is derailing the OP so I'll stop now.

@Orangesandlemons77

Museums education could be an idea. I guess it depends on how much money you are aiming for. Care work is always available if you wanted something recent to have a reference for. Childcare / tutoring also options

Many museums will want QTS, though, and it sounds as if the OP doesn't have that?

@Brouhahaha

Morally, that sounds terrible. How can people justify earning that much from charity work.

Working for a charity isn't "charity work", it's working for a charity. You still have bills to pay, families to support etc. It's a strange mindset that people have that those working for charities don't deserve to be fairly paid for the often specialist skills and value they bring to an important cause. Underpaying those in the charity sector leads to talent drain and is a reason why while there are so many charities that are very well run, there are also a lot run by well-meaning amateurs.

Why do we pay the CEO of a financial services company £200k+ to help rich people avoid paying tax, and the CEO of a children's charity supporting children in poverty £50k?

"We have a visceral reaction to the idea that anyone would make very much money helping other people. Interestingly we don't have a visceral reaction to the idea that people would make a lot of money NOT helping other people" - Dan Palotta

Yes, I accept that. I am not saying they shouldn't earn a fair wage but £17K for a couple of months work! I do think that's being grossly overpaid when money could be going to much better resources.

I get what you are saying about financial services, but it's relative. £17K from a small charity which is the expense of helping others is probably a big proportion of the general gross earnings whereas paying someone £17K in financial services is a drop in the ocean. I personally wouldn't be able to knowingly take that kind of income for such a small period of work knowing that money is not going to those it should be.

Many museums will want QTS, though, and it sounds as if the OP doesn't have that?

I didn't find that actually, or it depended on the role- guides didn't maybe for education. But if the OP did a PGCE they should have QTS

Lots of people find that once they have a teaching job its not for them. Teaching is a really difficult job right now and retention of teachers is a real problem. So the "why do a pgce if you didn't want to teach" comments just aren't relevant or helpful.

It would help to know what areas you sre considering or what degree courses you did incase they give a clue to what youcwant to do.

Im interested in OT and edPsych but cant manage a full time retraining!

Adult ed and museum work usually pays very low.

Have you applied for council or NHS jobs ?

@Orangesandlemons77

Many museums will want QTS, though, and it sounds as if the OP doesn't have that?

I didn't find that actually, or it depended on the role- guides didn't maybe for education. But if the OP did a PGCE they should have QTS

I thought you had to complete a year's teaching as well, but maybe my information is out of date - I'm not a teacher, but I do work in museums!

I’m afraid once you’ve been a teacher no other employer will touch you. Everyone hates teachers and thinks they’re lazy. I’m an ex teacher myself and I always used to get stereotyped as lazy. Employers would say stuff like you would struggle with a 40 hour work week, you wouldn’t be able to swan off home at 3.30, you wouldn’t have long holidays to sit and do nothing, we don’t think you’d cope with a proper job. They would say I couldn’t cope with a commercial environment where profit is the bottom line because I was used to working in the public sector. They would say I was “teachery” which basically means bossy and frumpy and woke. I regularly got feedback saying you aren’t suitable for working in the private sector, you should go back to teaching. One employer told me they’d be more likely to hire me if my CV said I’d been in jail instead of being a teacher.

In the end I got a job related to my bachelors degree by lying about my qualifications. I took my teaching qualifications and work experience off my CV completely. I just put “at home caring for family” for those years. (After that I had DC which fucked up that opportunity but that’s another story).

@SilverOak that may be your experience but I know plenty of ex teachers who are now in other professions. I'd assume it's more about you and the way you're perceived than it is your past career decisions.

My point is that those attitudes to teachers are out there and are preventing ex-teachers getting hired by some employers. In my experience most ex-teachers end up in other public sector jobs, often related to education in some way. Private sector employers have overwhelmingly negative opinions of ex-teachers.

I'd assume it's more about you and the way you're perceived than it is your past career decisions
That is actually a really nasty comment and there’s no need when I’m offering my genuine experience.

@SilverOak it's not nasty when you're stating it as fact that nobody will ever employ an ex-teacher. That clearly isn't the case. I'm sorry that the truth hurts.

I thought you had to complete a year's teaching as well, but maybe my information is out of date - I'm not a teacher, but I do work in museums!

No, that is the induction year and you need to compete it to keep teaching, but you get QTS through doing the PGCE.

@SilverOak

I’m afraid once you’ve been a teacher no other employer will touch you. Everyone hates teachers and thinks they’re lazy. I’m an ex teacher myself and I always used to get stereotyped as lazy. Employers would say stuff like you would struggle with a 40 hour work week, you wouldn’t be able to swan off home at 3.30, you wouldn’t have long holidays to sit and do nothing, we don’t think you’d cope with a proper job. They would say I couldn’t cope with a commercial environment where profit is the bottom line because I was used to working in the public sector. They would say I was “teachery” which basically means bossy and frumpy and woke. I regularly got feedback saying you aren’t suitable for working in the private sector, you should go back to teaching. One employer told me they’d be more likely to hire me if my CV said I’d been in jail instead of being a teacher.

In the end I got a job related to my bachelors degree by lying about my qualifications. I took my teaching qualifications and work experience off my CV completely. I just put “at home caring for family” for those years. (After that I had DC which fucked up that opportunity but that’s another story).

It may be different in roles such as museum education where teaching would be good experience. It could depend on the job I guess. Maybe something commercial / corporate would be looking for previous experience in that area rather than teaching.

There are a lot of transferable skills in teaching experience such as dealing with people, multi-tasking, etc.

Sorry I’ve been so busy and didn’t realise I had so many replies!!

Thank you for all your lovely advice. I have been applying for local council jobs and yes I do have QTS so I’m able to teach.

I’m going to try looking for some of the other suggestions I never even thought about museum education! I think sometime you get stuck in your own ways and that’s why it’s good hearing other people’s views and experiences :)

I think your problem is you are 39 and not sure what you want to do - and in fact you do know what you don't want to do. You have had jobs presumably in your 20's and now have retrained (so in my mind that's one career path rejected).

You then have done some very substantial education (6 years??) which would either lead to a more academic life or teaching - both rejected.... I'm sure you have good reasons but its a red flag that you seem to have changed direction 3 times.

I'm then thinking you are probably now applying very broadly looking for "something" and that is probably coming across in you applications as directionless.

I would go into teaching part time and see how you get on. I'm fairly sure most teachers don't work 80 hour weeks but suspect you are coming up against the age old problem that you need to work more when starting out to lesson plan etc (normally done as a young graduate) then those lesson plans get used over and over....

I'm not sure that it's the gaps that are the issue, but more the lack of direction at 39.

I have interviewed someone recently with this sort of background and rejected him as I couldn't see that he wouldn't just do the same again...and move on.

@F107

SHAME ON YOU

You’re exactly the type of people that the charity commission is set up to weed out

£17k for three months work?
Disgusting

Agree, £17k for three
Months work is just gravy train capitalism, NOT charity

Nobody expects charities to work for nothing
But there is competitive rates and there’s is greed

Have you got previous work experience? It’s worth remembering that counts too, project management, working on a team etc is all transferable.

I was in a similar position and my masters university career advice said to get myself out there on linked in. I didn’t actually get round to that, because what I also did worked. This was to email the contact on a job advert, explaining that I was lacking the experience, but was aiming for that job ultimately and could she share what career progression she would want to see in a candidate for that role.

She suggested something, I went for one of those jobs and I’m now happily on my next job after that.

For interest, it was an analyst in the nhs.

If that’s remotely similar to something you’re interested in, do PM me.

In general the public health lot tend to be nice, so it’s worth asking for advice or even work experience.

I left teaching 15 years ago and worked as an SEN caseworker for a LA. Was stressful but more flexible than teaching- part time and wfh both options. Some LA's have had additional funding due to Covid and I've seen some education based 'Covid recovery' type jobs.