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Original poster

How much is an employer entitled to know about medical appointments?

50 replies

Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 16:56

In work time?

I am line manager to a woman with multiple health issues, although it's not clear what they are. Most of the time she's a model employee, but she does have a lot of time off for appointments.

She's also very clear that her health is her business and won't share any details. So for example, when she provides an appointment letter (our standard policy) she will black out all the detail of what the appointment is actually for.

I've taken this at face value - her health her business and allowed the time off based on these redacted letters. My boss is now saying I should be insisting on knowing what they're for.

OP posts:
Doorhandleghost · 15/07/2021 18:20

Why is your boss saying you should insist? Is there to be a consequence if she doesn’t?

daisypond · 15/07/2021 18:38

Are the appointments in work time or her own time? What is your company policy on medical appointments? Is it for hospital appointments or something else?

Eleoura · 15/07/2021 18:41

Agree, what are the company policies about appointments during work time? Do you have an HR department to ask?

FindingMeno · 15/07/2021 18:43

I'd like to know the answer to this, having been in the position as an employee that my health issues have been shared with others.

SoddingWeddings · 15/07/2021 18:44

What difference does it to the company make if it's for, say, dealing with a vaginal prolapse versus investigation of a chronic condition with a view to diagnosis?

Does he need to refer her to Occupational Health to assess whether her health requires reasonable adjustments?

Or is she seeing a private healthcare provider for cosmetic surgeries?

purplesequins · 15/07/2021 18:50

her health is private.
but as pp says you could refer to occupational health.
occ would only give details relevant to employment like can work, can work with measures, can't work.

ThePlantsitter · 15/07/2021 18:50

Depending on what's in her contract you don't have to pay her for medical time off unless she's registered disabled and it's related to that. So I suppose it's all down to the contract. Very very short sighted to make a big deal of out of she's otherwise a 'model employee'.

Eleoura · 15/07/2021 18:50

What difference does it to the company make if it's for, say, dealing with a vaginal prolapse versus investigation of a chronic condition with a view to diagnosis?

It could be very important to know the reasoning for the appointments!!! Mental health from work stressors could be one. I used to work in a specialist respiratory unit and one staff member was having every thur off. Usually no reason, would just call in sick or provide a blank sick note. Would arrive at work with a large bandage on his neck! Turns out, he was having TB treatment at a weekly clinic!!! Without knowing the details of his illness, he could have infected staff and /or patients and completely compromised the whole department!

Original poster
Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 18:51

There are a lot, maybe 2-3 per month and boss just feels she has a right to know what they're for, if she's to keep allowing them.

I can see some logic, in that some appointments can be arranged more flexibly than others or are not so urgent they couldn't wait until the holidays. We work term time and policy is that we should "endeavour" to arrange medical appointments outside work time.

That's the thing @soddingweddings, we don't know. I have previously done an OH referral for her but she wouldn't give authority for them to release details of her conditions to us, only the adjustments they recommended (which were all granted). TBH I'm not even sure they were told what's wrong, only how it affects her.

OP posts:
Noterook · 15/07/2021 18:53

You shouldn't ask, no. But if the appointments are at a level that they are affecting her work quite substantially, then you can refer to OH.

Noterook · 15/07/2021 18:53

But even in that instance your manager isn't automatically entitled to know.

Noterook · 15/07/2021 18:54

Sorry posted before I saw already referred her to occupational health. In that case then no, they make the recommendations re the impact around work, if you have further concerns can refer back, but they aren't bound to share personal medical info.

ThePlantsitter · 15/07/2021 18:55

But unless your boss is medically trained she won't know what is urgent and what can wait will she? Is it that she actually doesn't believe they're valid appointments? That's one thing. Bit of someone is so embarrassed/private that they're blocking out details it feels unnecessarily cruel to make them expose themselves in that way.

Original poster
Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 18:55

Well yes, she is a model employee except for the 2-3 days a month she's not there. There's always significant travel, so a full day is needed. They are not always NHS places and it's not regular appointments at the same place, lots of different institutions.

OP posts:
Potteringshed · 15/07/2021 18:57

So she has seen Occ Health and they have given you suggested adjustments? I'm not sure what else you would gain by getting the details.

user27424799642256 · 15/07/2021 18:59

So occupational health have already confirmed she meets the definition of a disability under the Equality Act and reasonable adjustments are necessary? (pp was not quite correct in the reference to "registered disabled", it's whether you meet the EA conditions).

Was attendance of more frequent than average medical appointments one of the reasonable adjustments? It often is.

That's all your boss needs to know - that they're disability related appointments. Occupational health share the information the employer needs, not the information the employer is feeling nosy about.

drpet49 · 15/07/2021 19:01

2-3 full days a month? She’s taking the piss

Unsoliciteddeckpic · 15/07/2021 19:01

So she is off 10% of every month?

Gwenhwyfar · 15/07/2021 19:01

@Eleoura

What difference does it to the company make if it's for, say, dealing with a vaginal prolapse versus investigation of a chronic condition with a view to diagnosis?

It could be very important to know the reasoning for the appointments!!! Mental health from work stressors could be one. I used to work in a specialist respiratory unit and one staff member was having every thur off. Usually no reason, would just call in sick or provide a blank sick note. Would arrive at work with a large bandage on his neck! Turns out, he was having TB treatment at a weekly clinic!!! Without knowing the details of his illness, he could have infected staff and /or patients and completely compromised the whole department!

Contagious diseases are obviously different, although I suppose someone can suffer from an illness that is contagious without actually being contagious all the time. If the disease is not contagious, isn't a person's medical information private?
user27424799642256 · 15/07/2021 19:03

@Cooldryplace

Well yes, she is a model employee except for the 2-3 days a month she's not there. There's always significant travel, so a full day is needed. They are not always NHS places and it's not regular appointments at the same place, lots of different institutions.
"Model employee except for her disability".

Want to give a bit more thought to the implications of what you're saying?

Original poster
Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 19:03

Boss would say it is private if only she knows and it absolutely wouldn't be shared.

OP posts:
Original poster
Cooldryplace · 15/07/2021 19:04

Don't have a go at me Grin I've been complying with all her requests. Boss has started to question whether it's reasonable.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 15/07/2021 19:06

At my workplace you're entitled to 2 hours for medical appointments. Anything more than that you need to take annual leave for.

Does your work have anything like that in place? It might be worth checking contracts or with a HR department if you have one.

You don't need to know what the appointments are for but you do need to know that she's not taking the piss.
If it's an appointment at some kind of medical establishment but you have no more detail than that, she could literally be taking paid time off for something like clinical trials and you'll be non-the-wiser.

donquixotedelamancha · 15/07/2021 19:07

My boss is now saying I should be insisting on knowing what they're for.

Tell your boss you want that in writing before you will do it.

If they put it in writing, still get advice from HR before you speak to her, then relay to your boss when they advise it's a stupid idea.

When this terrible plan goes tits up make clear to your employee, your boss and HR that you have done this under direct instruction and you raised concerns.

This woman sounds like she knows her rights and an upheld grievance for bullying a disabled person doesn't look good on your records.

donquixotedelamancha · 15/07/2021 19:10

You don't need to know what the appointments are for but you do need to know that she's not taking the piss.

An OH report and letters for every appointment is pretty good evidence she isn't and has some serious condition she wishes kept private.

Pressing this model employee to reveal private medical details will not end well.

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