Recruiters - what does 'another applicant had more relevant skills and experience' really mean

[christinarossetti19]

Just that really.

Obviously, I understand what it's saying but the organisations that I'm applying to know about my skills and experience from the application, but they've offered me an interview so they must be relevant enough.

The problem that I have is that I can't even get an interview for the field that I've worked in for 25 years and in any other field of course someone else will have more relevant skills and experience.

What can I do? I'm doing courses and upskilling myself and applying for anything where I fulfil the person spec and JD, but to no avail.

I feel stuck in this never-ending cycle that there's no way out of.

Yes, I know.

But I can't even get an interview in the field that I've worked in for 25 years, so there will always be someone with more relevant experience in other fields.

@SingToTheSky

I've heard it suggested on here that you effectively ask for feedback during the interview, at the end. Ask them about the sort of person they are looking for and explain how you are that person!

Wow I wish I were brave enough to do that!

At the end of every interview I ask how closely I fit the brief and whether they have and concerns about my suitability for the job. If they raise anything I address it

From both sides of recruitment I think it often means you met all the criteria but the other person had something extra. So often not a deficit on the runner up's part.

This is especially true in my sector where its very competitive and people will often for example have post graduate degrees where only undergrad is asked for.

I'm not deluded and obviously sometimes it can mean the other candidates were lacking. But in my experience this would be phrased differently.

Ok, so if I've rejected based on CV / application and not at interview it'll likely be:

• moving jobs often (eg 3 jobs in 4 years) We prefer some stability
• poor education, no degree or qualification which is a firm requirements for some roles
• multiple typos in the CV showing lack of attention to detail
• messy or badly formatted CV
• irrelevant skills and experience eg accountant applying for a sales job
• lack of a clearly required skill eg no team leadership or specific languages
• wrong location (no, the job can't be remote, yes, you do need to be within a commute if the office)
• wrong level eg HR Assistant applying for HR Manager
• multiple contract roles, why would you be going perm again?

Sometimes it comes down to things like enormously long 9 page CV, which usually means long winded and laborious interview and a lack of fit with company culture.

Some jobs have 200+ applicants within a few days of posting, it's brutal but we need to cut them back to a manageable number.

If I have 100 applicants I'd say 60 would be an immediate reject and 40 would be screened in more detail, and I'd aim to contact no more than 12 candidates of which 8-10 would reply and 3 would go to final interview.

Oh, and sometimes it's multiple degrees, those career academics who don't seem to transition well into the commercial world.

Why do multiple back to back master degrees? This would make me wary. Or long academic career, then academic research but no commercial experience, we'd rather catch the candidate after their masters with an internship or 1yr work experience as this is usually a better fit and more successful

NHS recruitment can be highly regimented to cope with large numbers of applicants. If they get hundreds of applicants, they can still only interview 1-2 days worth. Thus many suitable (and appointable) applicants won't be invited to interview.

Make the shortlisters job easy by ensuring your application explicitly demonstrates every single one of the essential/ desirable criteria.

When trying to whittle hundreds of applications down to an invite for interview list, shortlisters are looking for reasons to reject applications.

Thus for instance,
didn't mention their driving licence - reject
Hasn't listed gcse maths or equivalent- reject
Didn't demonstrate competency in blood taking - reject

If you are doing all this already, have you considered asking about secondment opportunities? I know people who have successfully made sideways moves after doing secondments.

BigPyjamas well, I might as well give up. I've been self-employed for over 10 years. I have legitimate reasons for wanting to get a job again which I explain but maybe they do just see 'self-employed' and bin it.

Ditto, my age, which I try to fudge, but some of the forms I've filled in have asked for dates attending school/university etc.

@lompolo

NHS recruitment can be highly regimented to cope with large numbers of applicants. If they get hundreds of applicants, they can still only interview 1-2 days worth. Thus many suitable (and appointable) applicants won't be invited to interview.

Make the shortlisters job easy by ensuring your application explicitly demonstrates every single one of the essential/ desirable criteria.

When trying to whittle hundreds of applications down to an invite for interview list, shortlisters are looking for reasons to reject applications.

Thus for instance,
didn't mention their driving licence - reject
Hasn't listed gcse maths or equivalent- reject
Didn't demonstrate competency in blood taking - reject

If you are doing all this already, have you considered asking about secondment opportunities? I know people who have successfully made sideways moves after doing secondments.

The first sift of NHS recruitment may even be automated.

@christinarossetti19

In this case I would cover it in your covering letter or CV summary, explaining about why you're looking to move back to a permanent role, hopefully that would provide employers with more reassurance

(Caveat, my experience is all private sector, it might well be different in public)

@christinarossetti19

BigPyjamas well, I might as well give up. I've been self-employed for over 10 years. I have legitimate reasons for wanting to get a job again which I explain but maybe they do just see 'self-employed' and bin it.

Ditto, my age, which I try to fudge, but some of the forms I've filled in have asked for dates attending school/university etc.

I'd definitely explain why you want to move away from being self employed in your covering letter.

Yes, of course, as I have said that's exactly what I do.

But I do wonder if it's a big red flag for employers and they just disregard the application at that point.

If being self employed is a big reg flag, ignoring it won't help.

When I was in this situation, all my wisest and best friends said, just keep going.

And that seemed to me very annoying and illogical advice.

And I kept trying to understand and find a reason why.

In the end. They were right. Please just keep trying.

I can't explain why it works. But it does x

I don't ignore it tennisballboy. Quite the reverse - I explicitly explain that although I've been self-employed I've worked directly in organisations etc and my reasons for hoping to secure employment now.

My point is that however constructively and positively I address, it wont matter if an employer doesn't want to hire someone who has been self-employed.

Thanks Mountaingoating my friends are saying the same although I feel like I'm being driven mad by the process. The isolation of lockdown has really affected my clarity of thought and perspective.

Do they not trust your motives after going private for 20 years?

@christinarossetti19

I don't ignore it tennisballboy. Quite the reverse - I explicitly explain that although I've been self-employed I've worked directly in organisations etc and my reasons for hoping to secure employment now.

My point is that however constructively and positively I address, it wont matter if an employer doesn't want to hire someone who has been self-employed.

Thanks Mountaingoating my friends are saying the same although I feel like I'm being driven mad by the process. The isolation of lockdown has really affected my clarity of thought and perspective.

I was asked about this when moving from self-employed consultant back into the public sector too. I didn’t mention security because that wasn’t the driver. I said (and it was true) that I had enjoyed working in different sectors as a problem solver but missed seeing the output and being part of a team. It worked.

Yes, I've said in my cover letter and an interview something along the same lines.

tennisballboy I don't know if they don't trust my motives. More as to whether they read 'self-employed' and disregard my application.

Recruiting manager in a council. Sadly I often have just one job that I'm filling. We score using a competency interview. So I might ask you a question which is something like "you would be dealing with queries from the public and from senior management as part of the job, tell me what you think makes somebody a good communicator". I'm looking for someone who can give me an in depth answer with examples. Someone who just talks about listening skills will get 1 point. Someone who talks about preparing for a conversation, negotiation, confidence, presentation skills etc is going to score higher. Someone who can talk me through how they collect data, what software they use and then how they interpret and report it and the impacts that their reports have will score much higher than someone who tells me just that they can use Excel but doesn't see the bigger picture.
I have a base line score that people must reach in order to be appointable but I will always offer the post to the person with the highest score. So if you are appointable that's a positive you might just need to hone your answers to ensure you pick up more marks on things like organisational culture or their corporate plan.

I don't interview for the sake of it or to make up numbers. I've got to shortlist this week for 4 posts and have 70 candidates. I'll interview those who I think have potential to do the role and self employment etc does not put me off. Lots of moving around would and a leap of sector might but would depend on the reasons.

That's reassuring that being self-employed wouldn't put you off councilworker.

The feedback that I've received isn't 'you didn't demonstrate a full understanding of what a good communicator is' or anything that I could do differently next time.

It's always 'someone else had more relevant skills and experience' which, however much I give examples of the most relevant skills and experience that I have, they'll never be as relevant as someone who has been doing that exact role.

It can mean exactly that, Sometimes if someone gives a bad impression I'm told to say that because generally people accept that response better than the generic, I'm sorry but on this occasion you have been unsuccessful.
If you ever get this response I would also always ask for feedback on your interview.

P.s I hate working in recruitment and I don't like rejecting people.

@senua

They didn't offer the opportunity for feedback, so I can't really ask those questions. I've heard it suggested on here that you effectively ask for feedback during the interview, at the end. Ask them about the sort of person they are looking for and explain how you are that person! It gets them away from the tick-box / scorecard straightjacket. It gives you a chance to sparkle, to stand out from the crowd, to leave on a high note.

Do you mean ask this at the start (what sort of person they're looking for)?

If someone asked us for feedback at the interview - we would decline and say we had everything we needed for now - getting drawn into this feels like a bad idea.