How do you keep morale up when job-hunting?

[christinarossetti19]

I'm finding it quite demoralising.

Sending applications and not even receiving an autoreply acknowledgement.

Preparing for interviews and just not hearing afterwards.

Not being able to apply for jobs/get interview because I haven't got enough experience in X.

Not getting jobs because I'm over-qualified.

I'm studying a post graduate course, seeing my friends outside, exercising etc etc but have this weird feeling that I'm somehow living outside of life.

I find myself look at people with jobs, even if I speak to someone on the phone, and feeling wonder that they've got this seemingly elusive thing!

I've been self-employed for a long time, which I don't think it a particularly desirable attribute for employers, but I can't do anything about that.

How do others keep their pecker up?

I don't expect you to keep track.

He's in his 50s. Age is definitely an issue in how hard he's finding it.

I'm in my 50s too, and this process has aged me by about 10 years it feels.

If one more well meaning person mentions 'transferable skills'...

I do think people our age have much to bring to the workforce, but unfortunately the 20/30s something who seem to be the main recruiters/interviewers don't.

@christinarossetti19 I'm also in my 50s and have found it so hard this time round. Last time I was job hunting I was 44 which didn't seem to put recruiters off.

Since I was made redundant earlier in the year it has been a nightmare just to get an interview.

I did get two offers last week (a bloody miracle) after many applications and have taken one out of desperation. But, I'm depressed at the thought of starting and am sure they will regret taking on an older person.

Unconscious bias is everywhere.

I'm sorry to hear that GillBiggeloesHair.

It's not nice not to feel excited about starting a new job.

Hopefully, the reality will turn out better for you. JorisBohnson2 on this thread took a job below her capabilities out of desperation, but it's working out well for her, so fingers crossed that it does for you too.

I was interviewed last week by three people half my age. I'd looked them up on Linkedin before the interview, so I knew that in advance but hadn't accounted for how dreadful the experience would be.

If that happened again, I would withdraw my application before interview (whilst remaining bemused that I never seem to have the right skills and experience for a job while these people half my age have a more senior positions than I would feel confident to apply for).

I’m sorry you are all going through similar experiences as me.
I was made redundant in April, took an 8 week contract and had nothing after that.
I’ve applied for loads, had one interview which I’ve just asked for feedback on 10 days after as I’ve not heard anything from them. I’ve got an interview today for a 6 month contract which I don’t particularly want.

As others have said it’s just the silence that’s the worst. I’m spending hours every day applying for jobs. I have 20 years experience in accounts payable roles and have been rejected for not enough experience. It’s brutal.

@christinarossetti19

I'm sorry to hear that GillBiggeloesHair.

It's not nice not to feel excited about starting a new job.

Hopefully, the reality will turn out better for you. JorisBohnson2 on this thread took a job below her capabilities out of desperation, but it's working out well for her, so fingers crossed that it does for you too.

I was interviewed last week by three people half my age. I'd looked them up on Linkedin before the interview, so I knew that in advance but hadn't accounted for how dreadful the experience would be.

If that happened again, I would withdraw my application before interview (whilst remaining bemused that I never seem to have the right skills and experience for a job while these people half my age have a more senior positions than I would feel confident to apply for).

Yes - I was really reluctant to take it as it was on a lower grade and salary but thought its better than nothing. A couple of weeks later the project lead walked out and they gave me his job, and have hinted at perm opportunities down the line.

I was struggling to get back on the ladder at the same level so am delighted!
It really is tough out there this year but hold on as things are improving....

Recommend if age is an issue to avoid putting anything on your CV that will 'date' you - focus on the last 10 years of your career maybe cut out anything older than 20 years. I know educational qualifications usually have a date but maybe leave the date off if poss?

Obviously harder to hide age at the interview stage but at least by then you've got an opportunity to talk past any discrimination....

it seems 50s are the decade where it begins to make a difference?

The problem is that all of the application forms that I've filled in have asked for educational qualifications and date.

Some have even asked for years that you attended secondary school (I guess they were expecting younger applicants!)

If I leave the dates off, it's obvious that I'm trying to hide my age and they would be justified in not taking the application any further as I haven't completed the form correctly.

I don't know how much difference age makes. The last job I was successful in getting was in 2004, as I've been self-employed for a long time! They were very different times in my sector - experience was a definite plus.

If that happened again, I would withdraw my application before interview (whilst remaining bemused that I never seem to have the right skills and experience for a job while these people half my age have a more senior positions than I would feel confident to apply for). You are aware of the irony that you are pre-judging on age too?

Which bit is pre-judging?

That I've been working in the field over 20 years longer than them? No, that's a fact.

I didn't say that younger people are not capable to do the jobs that they have, merely expressed bemusement as to why I never seem to have the relevant skills and experience for a job yet they, with 20+ years less experience, do.

Btw, I don't think they pre-judged on age. They offered me an interview. During the interview, it was transparently obvious that I had far more experience than either the manager or her manager.

I wouldn't want to, in my 20s, manage someone with decades more experience than me tbh.

More experienced doesn’t always mean more capable, and yes I have worked with alongside someone older who did not like being managed by someone much younger and more capable than him - I expect it didn’t help that she was female…but when recruiting you can’t assume an older person won’t like being managed by a younger person - that would be age discrimination.

I'm hoping that I don't face much age discrimination I'm 44. But in good news I have somehow managed to get 3 initial interviews set up for tomorrow.

Often those who've moved up the ladder have done so through navigating the political landscape well (also known as being a brown nose) rather than on skills and capabilities. I was managed by an over promoted jumped up little shit who only got her foot in the door in the organisation in the first place through nepotism and it was horrible- we both knew that I had more experience and knowledge than her which made it very difficult for her to feel 'senior' so she ended up pulling rank and doing things like questioning me to the nth degree on my expenses to feel important.

On another note, I've been interviewing today to backfill my role and it's really interesting being on the other side of the fence. There's definitely a 'gut feel' element alongside the person's technical capabilites and work background.

So far I've seen one person I want to offer to, one I definitely don't and one I'm not sure about but probably won't. It can be hard to say without seeing a number of candidates as unless they are outstanding, you just can't tell until you compare. Which has made me see why in the past I've come out thinking an interview went well and then not got the offer - it probably did go well but someone else's went better.

Hi, I am a long-time lurker on MN but I have actually just set up an account to be able to post on this thread! I hope it's ok if I join you - my OH is in his 50s and he is looking for a job after his whole department was made redundant a couple of months ago so I am 100 percent aware of the situation that so many of you are so eloquently describing.

These are hard times and at present OH has only found a really rubbish job, after managing successfully a 25-people department and having responsibility for major national projects... now he is working a boring, repetitive, minimum wage job! To see him coming back from work sad, tired and despondent truly breaks my heart.

But a honest job is a honest job is a honest job, and at least he is working, which I think it is better than not working for his own mental health and self esteem.

I also want to offer some hope because I experienced your situation, I was made redundant at 49 (horribly, personal, undeserved, job outsourced to freelance so not even legal possibly but it's another story for another thread...) and, after 1 year in a low paid admin job I was able to get a job in my old industry again, although not at the same level I was before, but it is a role which has scope to grow and improve.

So ... hello, I hope it's ok that I join you and here's hoping that everyone in this thread has better luck coming their way!

Welcome lurkers!

I've starting training to become an interviewer at work and it's interesting. It's true that there's an element of gut feel but my company actually works really hard to take this out of the decision making process because it can be unconscious bias towards people who are 'like you' (whatever that means, and I'm not necessarily talking about physically but similar life experience as well).

On age discrimination, it 100% happens. I'm older than usual for my role and I've been turned down for being 'wrong fit' with no other information provided when I know that was because of my age. I know I rocked the interview but ultimately they wanted someone younger, without commitments who they could beast and it didn't matter what I said about how hard I was prepared to work. The fact that HR wouldn't give the recruitment consultant more information than that (which he said was unheard of) made it clear it was a discriminatory reason.

I'm not sure that picking someone 'like me' is a bad thing if its in terms of how they work/think - they'll be working for me so it's important we can approach the work in a similar way and they can 'get where I'm coming from' without too much difficulty.

Clearly if its 'like me' in terms of irrelevant factors such as educational background/accent/clothing that's a different matter.

On the subject of feedback, I just had to give feedback on a candidate who was totally wrong for the role and there's no way you can be brutally honest so I had to go mega-euphemistic and just say things like 'answer to x could have been more complete' although I avoided the cliched 'other candidates had more relevant experience'. It was much harder than I thought- I can see now why hiring managers can be reluctant to give feedback - although I did ensure I gave some and that we fed back properly so she's not left in limbo.

"Like me" can result in poor diversity in a team and I'm not just talking about the equalities act or class discrimination - I mean diversity of thought processes really do result in better decision making. The gut feel unconscious bias needs to be challenged by the individuals doing the interviewing.
For us the fit is about things like attitude to work, attitude to being challenged with feedback, ability to work as part of a team and value relationship building, someone who can roll their sleeves up and get stuck in and look for solutions - not whine that it's not their job.

Maybe that's good for a long term approach but I need someone in on a temporary basis who can just pick things up... not all recruitment aims are the same so not all approaches will be the same either.

The problem with 'like me' is that it is really hard to eliminate unconscious bias - from the definition unconscious bias is a bias you don't realise you have. For example, I work in a very multicultural company and I've realized I am massively impacted by accent and came in with an (unconscious) bias that people with certain accents were somehow not as good as people with (eg) British accents. I would never have consciously thought that where someone had learnt to speak English made the slightest difference to the competency, but it's a bias I still have to pick myself up consciously on now. I feel more association with people who sound British! I recognise this one but there will be lots more I have yet to recognise.

@JorisBohnson2

Maybe that's good for a long term approach but I need someone in on a temporary basis who can just pick things up... not all recruitment aims are the same so not all approaches will be the same either.

I agree not all recruitment aims are the same but unconscious bias does mean you lose out on good candidates. Still not the purpose of the thread to discuss recruitment practices 😀

@RemoteControlledSheep

More experienced doesn’t always mean more capable, and yes I have worked with alongside someone older who did not like being managed by someone much younger and more capable than him - I expect it didn’t help that she was female…but when recruiting you can’t assume an older person won’t like being managed by a younger person - that would be age discrimination.

I didn't assume that an older person won't like being managed by a younger person.

I was quite open to the idea, but this interview and how much more experienced I was than any of the panel, made me think twice.

I wouldn't put myself through that again.

Years ago I had a job where I was much more capable than my (older than me) manager. I didn't stay long - wasn't learning anything and was completely bored.

JorisBohnson2 yes I can completely understand why organisations don't want to give feedback.

I don't ask for it anymore, as it's never told me anything useful or that I could change for the future.

Well done Lochnessgiraffe - that was quick work.

Best of luck with your interviews.

Thanks I now have 3 tomorrow and 1 on Friday. Just going over my cv to memorise it and look up the companies

@JorisBohnson2

Often those who've moved up the ladder have done so through navigating the political landscape well (also known as being a brown nose) rather than on skills and capabilities. I was managed by an over promoted jumped up little shit who only got her foot in the door in the organisation in the first place through nepotism and it was horrible- we both knew that I had more experience and knowledge than her which made it very difficult for her to feel 'senior' so she ended up pulling rank and doing things like questioning me to the nth degree on my expenses to feel important.

On another note, I've been interviewing today to backfill my role and it's really interesting being on the other side of the fence. There's definitely a 'gut feel' element alongside the person's technical capabilites and work background.

So far I've seen one person I want to offer to, one I definitely don't and one I'm not sure about but probably won't. It can be hard to say without seeing a number of candidates as unless they are outstanding, you just can't tell until you compare. Which has made me see why in the past I've come out thinking an interview went well and then not got the offer - it probably did go well but someone else's went better.

Couldn't agree more with your first paragraph. I've worked for a few different companies now and 'brown nosing' seems to work well... to a point. Then it just becomes embarrasing when people who are in lesser positions (person B) are expected to clean up the mess caused by said individual (person A) and every week or two there's a disaster because person A hasn't done something properly/they've decided to go home early and leave everyone else in the lurch/they just don't fancy making up their hours that week (or any week, in fact).

But, of course, if person A was to apply to a new job they'd get it over person B any day, because on paper they seem so much more qualified. And they tend to have the gift of the gab so can schmooze their way into the good books of anyone who is interviewing them. Meanwhile, person B who has actually been doing person A's job for x years doesn't get a look in.

It's really quite shit and so demoralizing for anyone in this sort of working environment. It's no wonder so many people want to leave their jobs, but it's also no wonder so many genuinely fantastic workers struggle to secure a new job, either. I really cannot stand that sort of environment, but unfortunately it seems to be commonplace.

Also- best of luck to any applicants out there.

I myself did manage to secure the promotion I interviewed for this week. I didn't fully meet the criteria but I really managed to bring it home during the interview, my showing how my 'not quite exact experience you're looking for' was incredibly transferable. So please don't feel put off if you don't quite meet the job description. I wouldn't have bothered applying to this role a year or two ago, but a lot of circumstances came into play and I certainly had a 'fuck it, I'm applying' moment.

Men apply to tonnes of jobs they don't meet the descriptions of, so why shouldn't we?