Hr keep treating me unfairly because I work part time

[toomanydjs]

Firstly they weren't giving me the correct amount of annual leave and paying me incorrectly. I put in a grievance and won.

Now they are saying I have no right to carry over annual leave if I can't take it due to sickness or maternity leave, even though everyone else can. Looks like I will have to put in another grievance to sort it out. This is so stressful. Can they keep doing this?

@ScissorsBike

Carrying over leave is not a legal entitlement. In our workplace, no leave can be carried over.

Not even when leave cannot be taken due to sickness? You are not allowed to take AL if you are off sick.

@ScissorsBike

Carrying over leave is not a legal entitlement. In our workplace, no leave can be carried over.

But that's not the point here. OP's workplace appear to be offering it as a benefit for full time workers, but not part time workers.

@toomanydjs

Yes Heyha

They are saying that if I have a year off then I loose all my annual leave, but if everyone else in the organisation has a year off they can carry up to 20 days leave over.

Have you actually been on sick leave for a year?

No. As part of my grievance last year I asked for my contract to be clarified around pay and annual leave. They are now doing that and want me to agree to these T&Cs.

Why would you take a year off? With ML it is usually added to end or used within the last 13 weeks otherwise unpaid ml. Sick leave differs because it is not usually a long finite period.

Well I'm not planning on taking a year off Lizs, I just put that as an example But presumably my employer has put in the option to carry leave over for a reason.

Does your company have handbooks? It should also state what the holiday / sickness policy is in there.

In regards to your last point about clarifying pay and annual leave.....what does the original contract you have say about this? It sounds like they might be changing the contracts / procedure across the company and you maybe in the firing line first.

I’m finding it a bit hard to unpick all your posts. Are you saying that, following your grievance they are re wording your contract and want you to agree that you will be unable to carry over leave (either due to mat leave or sickness) purely because you work part time?

And if you find yourself on ssp or once that runs out you can ask to use leave instead to keep full pay. So you can use it instead of losing it.

Your contract should match everyone else on your level and pay band with the words Pro Rata where relevant (eg leave entotlement)

What size is the firm? Are they trying to edge you out precisely because of the amount of sick or maternity or similar leave you’ve taken?

Obviously that’s illegal but it would help to get a handle on their motivation. It’s hard to believe that they are so very incompetent. I would guess they are being instructed to try to get rid of you. Any idea what prejudice or bridge they hold against you?

🙄 Grudge, not bridge.

Are you sure FT employees are allowed to carry over 20 days? That sounds crazy, because people would then have (eg) 40 days of holiday in one year to use.
I work for a large corporate and we can carry over 5 days and must use them by the end of March. If that is correct then I agree you should be entitled to carry over the same amount pro rata. I don’t know about carrying over holiday if you are on LT sick leave though - but again, you should be entitled to the same policy as FT people.

@toomanydjs

Yes Heyha

They are saying that if I have a year off then I loose all my annual leave, but if everyone else in the organisation has a year off they can carry up to 20 days leave over.

Well then they are on a hiding to nothing then, surely? They can't possibly expect anyone to agree to that it makes no sense!

I guess you will just have to grit your teeth and politely decline the change to your T&Cs with reference to what ACAS have told you, and ask them to justify their reasoning? I'd use the broken leg example too because it highlights just how stupid it is and doesn't tie in to underlying health, maternity or whatever. Anyone could slip on ice and have that same problem and pattern of absence so therefore everyone should get the same (albeit pro-rata) treatment.

I work for the biggest employer in the country. Everything was fine when we had in house HR. Then they contracted hr services out to another organisation and that's when all this started

@toomanydjs

I work for the biggest employer in the country. Everything was fine when we had in house HR. Then they contracted hr services out to another organisation and that's when all this started

Oh well then it will be cock-up not conspiracy.

I know it’s wearing but I’m afraid you’ll have to raise it as another complaint.

@toomanydjs

I work for the biggest employer in the country. Everything was fine when we had in house HR. Then they contracted hr services out to another organisation and that's when all this started

largest employer in country nhs? (If you are UK!)

Posted too soon, but agree with ricki cockup not conspiracy!

What has your union said?

I assumed NHS when I read your first post.
They have a shocking attitude towards employees.

I don't understand how an organisation like the NHS can have drawn up one special contract for OP. Aren't they all the same at the same band and it's likely that it's the interpretation, either by OP or by the manager explaining it to her, that's wrong?

@Backhills

I don't understand how an organisation like the NHS can have drawn up one special contract for OP. Aren't they all the same at the same band and it's likely that it's the interpretation, either by OP or by the manager explaining it to her, that's wrong?

It’s possible her employment file has fallen under the “ownership” of someone who has no idea what they’re doing.

Not read the full thread, but can't your line manager advocate on your behalf? I'm a line manager and I'd consider that part of my job.

Is it nhs? Have you had access to this?

www.nhsemployers.org/tchandbook/part-3-terms-and-conditions-of-service/section-13-annual-leave-and-general-public-holidays

1. A contract cannot override statutory rights.
2. ECJ Stringer vs HMRC ruling established that if you are absent on sick leave and can’t take annual leave it can be carried over. See www.gov.uk/taking-sick-leave

NHS agenda for change also covers this www.nhsemployers.org/pay-pensions-and-reward/nhs-terms-and-conditions-of-service---agenda-for-change/nhs-terms-and-conditions-of-service-handbook/annual-leave-and-public-holidays-section-13/accrual-of-statutory-annual-leave-and-sickness

1. Maternity Leave and annual leave - you accrue AL during ML including BH. You should aim to take it after ML or ASAP but can carry over if end of leave year is close to return date.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-right See para 15.93 www.nhsemployers.org/tchandbook/part-3-terms-and-conditions-of-service/section-15-leave-and-pay-for-new-parents-england-wales-and-scotland

My advice is write to HR advising them you have statutory rights as follows (set them out) and these as a minimum must form part of your T&Cs.

You also are entitled to pro rata contractual rights of (enter details) which must be included in your T & Cs.
Remind them your previous grievance was upheld. Given they are again discriminating against you due to your working pattern and not following NHS policies you consider they are displaying a continued pattern of discriminatory behaviour that is unacceptable. Failure to treat you equally with full time staff will result in a further grievance and you will lodge an ET1.

I am not a legal professional so you need to get legal advice but repeated discriminatory treatment of one employee may be viewed as corporate bullying/victimisation. If you are in a TU they may be able to assist.