I need some advice - and quickly please! About to employ a childminder and need to know lots of stuff!!

[dcolagirl]

My husband and I agreed that he would be a stay at home Dad until the kids were older. My son is now 2 and my daughter is 9 months. For financial reasons, my Husband needs to work full time as of the next week or two. A friend of mine at work has a daughter who I vaguely know, and she had a son a month after my daughter was born (so he is now 8 months). This girl used to work in a nursery and went through college etc to get her qualifications. The nursery wouldn't accomodate her son so she had to leave. I contacted her to see if she is interested in taking care of my two for me whilst I am at work and she is. I think she wants to do it unofficially. I have absolutely no idea what sort of money this is going to cost. She will have the kids at my house most of the time, and if we take them to her flat, we will provide food and nappies. She will either have them from 9am - 2.30pm or 1.30pm - 5pm. I don't know whether to pay her per hour, if so, how much? Or a set amount per month. I think I need to pay her even when she doesn't have the kids but I don't know how much. What about holidays, days off sick etc. HELP ME PLEASE!! I am arranging a meeting with her to discuss the details tomorrow night.

If she has the children in your house she is a nanny, and under your employment as such - you are therefore responsible for her tax and NI, although if you choose to pay cash in hand that is up to you.

If she has them at her own place for any length of time and is being paid she is a childminder and NEEDS TO BE REGISTERED. She is not insured should anything happen to your children and she cannot take responsibility for them in a medical emergency. Her flat may not be suitable and should not be used unless she becomes registered. If you think she might take the children to her flat you need to see what facilities she has and how child friendly it is - if she only has a baby it may not be suitable for your 2 year old.

As to pay she may well have some idea of how much she wants. Pay rates will depend on your area. Could you contact your local council to found out more about rates, or indeed other childminders. I think 25 - 30 pounds for a full day is the norm for a childminder, although if you are employing a nanny to look after your children in your own home and providing food, heating etc the rate would be a bit less. She may want a retainer to cover periods where you don't employ her but want to keep her available. If you are doing all this unofficially though this may not be necessary or even appropriate, same for holidays and sick - she would not get paid if she was sick.

Could you also ask her if she is prepared to become registered - presumably if she has nursery experience this would not be a problem.

HTH
Titchy

Hi dcolagirl

Agree with everything titchy as said about childminders needing to be registered. Also, childminders and anyone over a certain age (either 8 or 16, can't remember) who lives in their house will, during the registration process, need to be "police checked" to ensure that they are a suitable person for children to be coming into contact with.
All of the childminders I have used over the years, (and also the one nanny), have had written contracts with me. Also, they were all members of the National Childminding Association who have a website - www.ncma.org.uk - which gives parents information. Local council should be able to help too.
Rates of pay will vary from area to area, depending on supply and demand. In my area, Edinburgh, I think the going rate is about £30 per hour. All of my childminders had a two week retainer period where holidays were paid for but I think this varies from childminder to childminder and should be agreed in the contract.
Questions I would ask would include:
what she plans to do with the kids, eg activites, outings, toddler/childminder groups. Also, who pays for these.
Discipline - what are her thoughts/policies on this.
Also ask her about what she would do in certain situations, eg informing you in case of emergencies; what she would do if your daughter and her son got on etc, etc. Just to get a flavour of how she would deal with things and whether your and her ideas are compatible.
Finally, go on your instincts. If you don't feel happy about her looking after your children, don't do it no matter how convenient it seems. There are other childminders out there.
Hope this all helps and hope it all works out for you.

Thanks guys. I knew you lot wouldn't let me down! I think I'll go see her at her flat and see how I feel. I know what sort of things my boy goes for, and to be honest, she doesn't have a garden and I have a huge one so I'd be happier with her coming to my house. Plus, I know it's safer for my kids, and I'm nearer to work than she is too. I know she can't drive so trips out are not on the cards but there is a park outside my front door and if she is only having them for 4 or 5 hours day, my Husband and I can do the fun stuff with the kids, which I would prefer anyway. My Mum lives near too and she has agreed that if the minder lets me down, she will have the kids but she doesn't want paying. I've insisted that I pay her though so I will say to the minder that if she lets me down, she doesn't get paid. I will also say that the weeks she has off, or that hubby or I have leave, we will pay her half the usual rate as a retainer. Do you think that's fair?

I don't want to sound miserable, but I would hesitate to use anyone as a childminder who isn't registered as such. As has already been pointed out, they would have no insurance or safeguards in place should you have any disputes. As far as I'm aware, registered childminders are only allowed to look after one child under the age of one at any given time, which presumably includes their own, so it may not be legal (?). Alibubbles is a registered childminder and her website details have been posted before so you could do a search for that for further information.

dcolagirl, I totally agree with the others about this - unregistered = (for me) no good to me.
I know someone who's been using an unregistered childminder for her son, but she knows I (& others) disapprove. you can get a list from your local authority of registered childminders - I assume they have police checks etc like the childcare workers at my dd's nursery. can your mum not help out on a more permanent basis rather than if the childminder lets you down? you could always 'pay' her in other ways - my SIL just gave her mum loads of vouchers for clothes for looking after her 6 month old 3 days a week.
also - if you want more detailed things to look for in a childminder, ask Alibubbles who's a mumsnetter and childminder too.

dcola girl, for anything long term and permanent, I'd play safe and use a registered childminder for all the good reasons given here.

HOwever, twice I've had childminding arrangements with mothers I knew well who were unregistered. One was temporary and ad hoc, the mother was highly trained and already a trusted babysitter of ours. The other was more full time - a friend and neighbour who was an experienced and conscientious mother. The arrangements differed, and the minding took place either at our home or at theirs. I had experience of registered childminders and their homes, so I knew what I was looking for. In each case I felt the childminders and their homes offered just as much or more than the registered childminders I saw. My children were cared for very well - I had no complaints at all. I paid the going rate and agreed this with the mothers at the outset. However, since these people were friends as well as carers, our relationship was never on a strictly professional footing and this caused problems and, in each case without going into lurid detail, bought the arrangement to a close.

I would now be far more cautious about choosing a non registered childminder - looking after another child is such a big commitment. However I would not discount it altogether, if I felt a certain person was really and truly right.

I also think it would be a very good idea to visit some registered childminders so you can compare what your friend is offering with what a registered childminder offers.

HTH

Agree with the others in theory but am well aware that the reality is that there aren't enough registered childminders to go round... Have been to many a laughable meeting in London listening to local authorities drone on about how great their provision is only to see them blanch when asked how many registered minders they actually have... So, depending on where you live you may well find it hard to find a registered childminder who can start that quick. If you think this girl'd be the perfect one for your kids I'd grab onto her with both hands, at least in the shorter term. But I'd check very carefully that she can cope. 2 babies and a toddler is a big step up from 1 baby, even if she has worked in nurseries. (There's a probability that she wouldn't be registered to work with more than 1 under 1 year...) Maybe you could persuade her to go through the registering process? If she's prepared to do that I'd have thought that would indicate very good commitment actually. Might be worth her contacting the National Childminding Association for details- and her local authority of couse- if she's interested. If you decide not to go with her they'd be a good starting point for you to find someone else too. Re pay: most childminders charge from £5 an hour (this would be v cheap in London, don't know about elsewhere)for 2 kids. Good luck. Hope whatever you go for works well.

I had a part-time nanny who came to my house bringing her 3 year old daughter (ds was 8m at the time). She had to fit in some nursery runs with her dd, and occasionally took ds to her house.

With a nanny I relied on references - she also used to work in a nursery. However she was excellent. We agreed an average number of hours a week, and that she would have 4 weeks paid holiday - 2 weeks at our choice, and 2 at hers. I think that I agreed to pay up to 2 weeks sick pay. I paid the going rate for a nanny which is about £5.50 per hour in South London for a nanny looking after her own child. Nannies, unlike childminders, are not currently regulated. I paid by standing order into her bank account, but did account for tax and NI. If you and hubby are eligible for any of the various tax credits you may be better off using a registered childminder as I belive that you can get money off using registered childcare.

We did have a written contract - there are various proformas on the web. This set out the various duties, and also highlighted particular issues which could be viewed as disciplinary offences - including leaving ds alone in the house for any reason, or not using his car seat correctly for example.

I must echo the experience of others and say that friendships almost always get strained over childcare.

Hi Dcolagirl

I know how difficult it is getting childcare. I've used a few childminders who weren't registered - two are now close friends, but one was a complete disaster. She seemed okay - ex-teacher, nice house, very friendly; but it ended very badly. Now I wouldn't use anyone who is not registered.

This may not be the best news you hear, but I wish you luck.

Well I have tried to get hold of her but she doesn't seem to stay at home much. My main concern is that she will (not intentionally) neglect my daughter because she has a son the same age. A friend of mine has said her childminder has vacancies, and she lives very close to my work and does LOADS with the kids she looks after, such as takes them to playgroups, on outings etc. She also does a lot of educational stuff with the older kids. I'm thinking this might be a better option.

dcolagirl, Sorry I wasn't around yesterday to try and give you some help on the childcare problem. It looks as though you have been given some good advice here, so I will just reinforce some of the most important points. As said by some of the mumsnetters, I am a registered childminder and a nanny, jumped through the Ofsted hoops and Quality assurance assessment, and trained some 400 childminders in Herts. I am always happy to help if I can.

If this girl was to look after the children in her home, yes she would need to be registered adn she would only be able to have 3 unfer 5 (incl her own) and that also means only one under one.
If she looks after them your home, she is classed as a nanny, you will be responsible for her tax and National Insurance ( I can give you the figures if you want to know)

Either way, she must have some insurance to protect your children in the event of any accident or incident. To have insurance as a childminder, she must be registered, as a nanny Pann require some official qualification for insurance purposes.

I would also take references, I am always happy for people to check up on me. It will also take a bout three months for her to register with Ofsted and be inspected. She will need to attend training as part of this process. She will also have to have safety measures that she might not ordinarily have, socket covers, drawer catches, safety gate to kitchen. locks on windows etc.

You should also use a contract, it protects you and the nanny /childminder in the event of a dispute, the terms and payment are clearly set out for both. Fees depend on the area in which you live, you could find out by going to the Childcare link website and looking at what childminders charge in your area.

I f you want any further advice please feel free to email me at [email protected] you can also visit my website to see what I offer as a childminder here

Hi Allibubbles

Just seen your website - very professional and most informative. I bet you have a long waiting list!! Would love to find someone like you near me - a huge shortage of registered childminders in the Bromley area - or at least near me!!!

Wow - you guys are great. After considering all your advice, I have been on a great website (ChildCareLink) and have got a list of registered childminders in my area. I called a couple and they were so helpful. The rates were nowhere near what I expected, in fact, it works out that it will be less than I anticipated paying this unofficial girl. The site lists all the educational things they do etc and was so useful. I have also discovered that this girl smokes. I am much happier now, arranging "proper" care and am visiting a potential childminder Monday evening.

Thank you all so much for your advice - it made the whole thing much easier and made me realise those niggling doubts I had were potentially huge issues. Thanks again.

Great to hear that dcolagirl - let us know how it turns out.

titchy

dcolagirl, I'm glad that hopefully you will have found something that suits you and is "approved" rather than an unofficial arrangement. Hope it all works out well, for you and DC, don't forget, any problems, just ask!

Thanks Alibubbles. Great site, by the way! Just one thought - the ladt who I am going to see on Monday night said she hasn't been doing it that long, and she has four boys of her own. My son is not aggressive at all and I'm a bit concerned that, if she is new to having other people's children, that he might get bullied by these older boys. He has got such a gentle nature.

dcolagirl. a mother of four boys deserves a special place in heaven one day! I am sure that she will have strategies for handling them and as long as she has plenty of time to settle your children, reassure them, cuddles if they want them etc. they should be okay. I know that when I always have a new child to settle, I make sure that my own and any other minded children are aware that it is all new and strange to the new children and that they may be anxious and a little 'scared' about the new environment. We have things and ways of playing and games that we do together to help children settle quickly and become part of our setting. My minded children know that a 'newie' comes first for a while until they are one of the group!

If she has four children of her own, presumably she is not looking after any others apart from yours at the same time, as she may only have three under five and 3 under 8 icluding her own, and no more than one under one.

Good luck and don't worry too much!

Sorry to hijack the thread but I must just say, Alibubbles - I take my hat off to you, as a recently registered childminder I now know just how hard a job it can be, and you obviously find it extremely rewarding and take much pride in what you do and offer.

I must confess, I am finding it hard - I have always worked in largish companies and enjoy the buzz of an office environment and the contrast to working with children at home, well - to be honest I am finding it difficult to adjust.

Maybe I should of started a separate thread on this but I just wanted some advice from you - will it get better? have you and hints and tips to make it better?

ticklebyday. Yes it is hard work, but it is very rewarding. The times I have found it most stressful are when the mix of children has been wrong or they have been the wrong children for me, fortunately it has only happened twice in about 45 children! It is so important to get that balance right, at the risk of sounding a bit snobbish, they have to be the same sort of families with similar ideas, values, views, attitudes, etc, (but not necessarily the same interests.) One family absolutely loved me, but had a big discussion with their family because they being (champagne)socialists felt that I was a true blue tory and it conflicted with their beliefs on education etc. (mine are privately educated) I found this hilarious, and couldn't believe that politics could come into childcare in the home, but they decided it would give their child a balanced view on life! I didn't find this out until I'd been looking after their kids for about 4 years, when at a family party their closest friend said that I was the best thing that had ever happened to this family, but had caused major discussions, we all had a good laugh about it,- and the two children used to help me deliver election leaflets! I am going to visit them in Switzerland at half term for the 4th time as they left to live there a year ago.

I find that working for professional people only works best for me, and this is reflected in the fact that I have looked after 12 sets of siblings, one family for 8 years and another for 11 years.

I am fortuntate that the people that I work for see me as a professional, because that is the impression I try to give at the initial interview.

I give them a printed brochure ( done by myself) that basically tells you the info that is on my website, a copy of a contract, a retainer contract, a record form, a child protection statement for them to sign, my terms and conditions, menu plans and other useful information on returning to work.

This means they have something to take away with them and look over when trying to make a decision. I also invite them to come back with their partner/husband and to meet all of my family to see the kind of service that is on offer, and who their children will be mixing with.I also charge between 25 and 50 % more than the local going rate.

I always use a contract and make certain the it is clearly understood, I hate disputes over money, the best advice is to have one month deposit and be paid in advance direct to the bank, any extras being settled at the time.

I aim for the working parent to be able to just 'drop the baby and go' no worrying about food, nappies, linen, forgotten hats, gloves etc I provide an all inclusive service!

Many say peace of mind comes at a price, I have just taken on a baby who's mother wasn't happy with a major chain nursery, she is in a new job and in the last 6 weeks has had to collect her baby from nursery at least once or tewice a week for supposed illness, he is not ill at all, just teething!

When I attended the early years exhibition last week I spoke to the nursery involved and they offered me temp work to fit in with my hours as they are desperately short staffed, particularly in the baby rooms and especially at the nursery near me, the one the mother has removed her baby from. What a coincidence that they have a lot of sick babies to send home.

Enough from me!

Alibubbles - thank you so much for the information.

I'm still not sure if Childminding is for me - 15 years of being a "company" girl is difficult to shake off.

Only time will tell.

ticklebayday, perhaps it is because I am not just a childminder, I am a school governor, mentor for a childcare quality assurance kite mark scheme in Herts, active in the local political party, a childminder buddy for new childminders, a trained doula, maternity nurse, puppy walker for the guide dogs for the blind, a company director - not just a sleeping partner either, I have work to do to justify my salary! All jobs taken on since I left the city as an assistant mangaer for a now non existent bank (Midland!)

I keep myself so busy sometimes I feel as though I am chasing my own tail, but that's how I want to be!

That bit about the major chain which has a staffing problem and keeps sending babies home for being ill, but who don't actually seem to be ill once they're at home (and telling the parents to keep them off for the next couple of days too) sounds awfully like what recently happened to a friend of mine at a national chain nursery which also happens to charge well above average fees. She found a different nursery - it was that or give up the job.

hi advice for me to would be great - going back in Jan to studies my 3 will be 6mths (twins) and 21/2 yr old toddler. can't afford to put 3 in nursery where eldest is. A qulaified girl from nursery is interested in lookign after them if she caqn bring her son along who will be about 11/2 then. Is this legal? are there too many young ones??. what pay should there be for looking after 3 youngsters??. What is the best option for me? I only need care 3 days a week.

Thanks

barnezee, this would be perfectly legal as long as she is working in your home and employed as a nanny. Nannies can look after any number of children as long as they are capable, if you think she can cope that's fine. Ask the Inland revenue for their information pack on employing a nanny for tax and National Insurance.

She would not meet the Ofsted regulations if she was looking after them in her own home, first she would have to register and then meet the child ratio ruling of only 3 under 3 , no more than one under one. Ofsted do make exceptions to the one under one rule for twins or if a sibling comes along, but you have to have a very good case and be an experienced childminder to be approved.