Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Flip

Original poster

Paternity Leave, rejected because of late application

21 replies

fashu · 27/05/2021 19:11

Reposting in work section.
My husband is a temp worker. I am 39 weeks.
He gets moved around a lot but he informed his manager that I was pregnant in January when I was about 22/23 weeks, well within the notice period. They said OK that's fine.
He got moved again within same workplace when I was 30 weeks, told the new manager, they said yeah thats fine.
He was moved again, same workplace first week of May and this manager told him to fill a form and send to HR. He did this on 5th May. They never replied, he chased them almost everyday and today 27th May they have said he filled in the form late and he's not entitled.
They said its in the contract, but the one they have sent now is not the contract he signed when he joined.
Now the manager is telling him that he would have known I was pregnant for months so he has no excuse. I didn't tell my husband for a long time because of previous losses and waited until my scan. It was still in the time but this has really p**sed me off!
He informed his management, if they didn't let him know the other procedure and it wasn't in his contract how could he apply correctly?

Does anyone have any advise on how to escalate this? They aren't even letting him have time off to look after me and my Ds1

OP posts:

dementedpixie · 27/05/2021 19:19

He should have told them you were pregnant and when he wanted his leave to start by your 25th week of pregnancy. Doesn't necessarily need to be in writing:

Paternity Leave

At least 15 weeks before the baby is due, tell your employer:

the due date
when you want your leave to start, for example the day of the birth or the week after the birth
if you want 1 or 2 weeks’ leave

Your employer can ask for this in writing. You can ask for Paternity Pay at the same time, if you useform SC3(or your employer’s own version).

Original poster

fashu · 27/05/2021 19:53

He told management when I was 22 weeks pregnant. He has proof of this, they asked him later to fill out the for which he did immediately and sent within a few hours. After that they rejected it.

OP posts:

nerdsville · 27/05/2021 22:35

Are you sure they don't mean he's not entitled to paternity leave based on the actual eligibility criteria and they've only just worked this out because they've only just got the dates on his form in order to be able to calculate his eligibility? Rather than them meaning that he's not entitled because the form came in past the deadline, if you see what I mean?

I ask because you mention he's a temp worker so depending on his actual employment status/length of service then he might not actually be entitled to the leave - it's not a day 1 right in the same way as maternity leave (which is a disgrace, but that's a whole other conversation).

What exactly do you mean by temp worker? Is he an agency worker?

Original poster

fashu · 27/05/2021 22:45

Hes on a temp contract, like he's not permanent so he can be moved around at short notice and be told he has to leave within 24 hours kind of thing. Like its not a completely secure job.

The reason for this is that we were not informed soon enough – we need to be informed 15 weeks prior.

This is copied from the email, we being HR department.

It sucks because he's said he's not bothered about pay but they still aren't letting him take leave and we know they will just cancel his contract if he takes leave.

OP posts:

Aprilx · 28/05/2021 09:51

@fashu

Hes on a temp contract, like he's not permanent so he can be moved around at short notice and be told he has to leave within 24 hours kind of thing. Like its not a completely secure job.

The reason for this is that we were not informed soon enough – we need to be informed 15 weeks prior.

This is copied from the email, we being HR department.

It sucks because he's said he's not bothered about pay but they still aren't letting him take leave and we know they will just cancel his contract if he takes leave.

What does his temp contract actually say? That makes no sense to me, a contract cannot override statutory rights and that sounds like it could be.

Aprilx · 28/05/2021 09:56

Sorry posted too soon. The nature of his contract / engagement is relevant here, only employees are entitled to paternity pay and he may be worker rather than employee. This therefore has nothing to do with the timings but simply that he is not entitled.

Aprilx · 28/05/2021 09:56

*paternity pay and leave

justchecking1 · 28/05/2021 10:17

Does he have any evidence that he gave notice when you were 22 weeks? Has he presented that to his employers?

Original poster

fashu · 28/05/2021 10:42

Yeah, he has proof and the manager is willing to back him up that they knew.
He is an employee not a worker.
They are saying its government policy and they can't overrule it. They said its nothing to do with them. It seems dodgy to me.

OP posts:

justchecking1 · 28/05/2021 13:12

If they've acknowledged that he gave notice at 22 weeks but are saying it's government policy he doesn't qualify, then perhaps PPs are right and it's to do with his qualifying status somehow, rather than the timeframe? I don't see how they can have it both ways otherwise

Original poster

fashu · 28/05/2021 13:25

The reason for this is that we were not informed soon enough – we need to be informed 15 weeks prior.
They are saying the 15 weeks before is government policy.
This is exactly what they have said. It's no other reason. He didn't tell HR, he only told his manager, his manager didn't say you need to tell HR not me so he didn't know he hadn't done it right.
On the contract he signed it didn't say inform HR. They have sent a new one out and this says inform HR, but this one was not sent until yesterday.
They said they are finally going to look into it, but they are making out he's going on holiday abroad or something. On the contract it does say in certain circumstances 15 weeks can be waived but everytime we ask about it, they ignore it.

OP posts:

Eachpeachpears · 28/05/2021 13:35

This catches many men out but they have to fill the form in in time, just as you would have to give your MAT B1 in on time to get maternity pay.
We nearly missed it, I only happened to stumble across the info just in time for DH to do it. Employers don't tell you to do it because if you don't, they don't loose you for 2 weeks.

The only thing he can do is apply for unpaid parental leave to care for your first child, but I believe even this needs a lot of notice, 4-12 weeks I think

Original poster

fashu · 28/05/2021 14:11

I don't think that form is mandatory though. You don't even need to provide information in writing according to the gov website.
I didn't even get my matb1 form until end of April because of moving house, changing midwives and hospitals so we couldn't have given them that.
The thing is his manager is more than happy for him to take the leave. They are very excited for the baby and happy for us. This is just the HR department being funny.

OP posts:

ChessieFL · 29/05/2021 15:11

I wouldn’t have thought the 15 weeks thing would be a definite deadline, more of an ‘in ideal circumstances you should give notice by then’ sort of thing. Otherwise what about cases where the woman doesn’t know she’s pregnant until she gives birth? Surely in those cases the parents are still entitled to maternity/paternity leave even though they didn’t give the right notice?

PabloSlow · 29/05/2021 15:22

Can he take holiday, maybe 2 weeks, then have his paternity leave at say 1 month post birth?

cupsofcoffee · 30/05/2021 07:32

I don't think it is HR being "funny".

Forms for maternity and paternity pay need to be submitted well in advance - just telling your manager doesn't always count.

Paternity Pay
At least 15 weeks before the baby is due, give your employer form SC33_ (or their own version)

From www.gov.uk/paternity-pay-leave/how-to-claim

It sounds like the form wasn't submitted so they don't have to pay your DH anything.

cupsofcoffee · 30/05/2021 07:34

@fashu

I don't think that form is mandatory though. You don't even need to provide information in writing according to the gov website. I didn't even get my matb1 form until end of April because of moving house, changing midwives and hospitals so we couldn't have given them that. The thing is his manager is more than happy for him to take the leave. They are very excited for the baby and happy for us. This is just the HR department being funny.

According to the website you must give notice to HR in writing - by filling out the government form or their own version, at least 15 weeks in advance and your DH didn't do that.

dementedpixie · 30/05/2021 07:50

He told his employer within the timeline and they didn't direct him fill in the form so how is it his fault?

cupsofcoffee · 30/05/2021 08:44

@dementedpixie

He told his employer within the timeline and they didn't direct him fill in the form so how is it his fault?

Because many employers won't tell you what to do in that respect - it's your job as a parent-to-be to do your research.

It's not HR's fault that he didn't have a quick google and ask them for a paternity leave form.

Many employers won't (rightly or wrongly) want to lose you for two weeks either.

Original poster

fashu · 30/05/2021 13:58

Your employer can ask for this in writing. You can ask for Paternity Pay at the same time, if you use form SC3 (or your employer’s own version).

It's not a mandatory form. It can be verbal with a manager. It's the employers duty in inform if their procedures. It was not in his contract.
Anyway they are looking into it now and they will allow him to take the leave. This isn't our first child. We've never had to give notice in writing so it kind of is HR being funny.

OP posts:

Original poster

fashu · 30/05/2021 14:00

And for people saying employers don't want to lose staff for 2 weeks so they rig the system, that's discrimination against parents to be.

OP posts:

Flip