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Original poster

Contract

25 replies

Bargebill19 · 08/04/2021 16:14

Does anyone know what my rights are regarding a forged employment contract ?
My ex company are saying I have signed a contact with them. I have not. There is a dispute under constructive dismissal. So I asked for a copy to be sent to me. They have sent me a contract with my name digitally added - the rest of the contract is in fresh ink.
I have a solicitor engaged. But am interested to know if anyone has had any similar experience and if so what.

Thank you.

OP posts:

flowery · 08/04/2021 19:02

You don’t have to have physically signed a contract to be deemed to have agreed to it. What are the circumstances of the contract- is there a different one you are claiming applies?

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 08/04/2021 19:08

Yep. It is over wages for employment.
He is claiming I signed a contract stating a lower than advertised wage rate.
Problem is that I did not. He has produced a contract where it is clear that my signature has been digitally added, and the rest of the contract details are in real, fresh ink.

OP posts:

flowery · 08/04/2021 19:50

Did you know the contract existed? Were you given it and refused to sign it? Did you make clear that you were refusing?

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 08/04/2021 19:55

No, this contract was never given to me. So I couldn’t refuse to sign it as I wasn’t given it.

I had a previous contract with him (a year ago for a different job) and it looks like this has been digitally added to this new, false contract.

OP posts:

flowery · 08/04/2021 21:12

Ok so what contract are you saying applied to this job?

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 08/04/2021 21:36

As advertised through indeed.com and stated verbally prior to interview. Not what I was subsequently told after I had started, and then was told I had agreed too. Hence my asking for a copy of the contract I had supposedly signed - but never received and therefore never signed.

OP posts:

flowery · 08/04/2021 23:20

It’s difficult to advise with such little information- it sounds like you’ve only been there a very short time, if you hadn’t had a contract yet? What terms are in dispute? And if you only have short service how are you claiming constructive dismissal?

Aprilx · 09/04/2021 19:57

For better replies you really need to explain properly what has happened, including the timeline.

You also may need to understand that a contract is formed verbally, a piece of paper is evidenced a contract, but it is not the contract itself. Employers need to provide a statement of written particulars, which would cover salary within a certain length of time, they don’t need you to sign this.

I don’t understand your post because you are talking about constructive dismissal, which means you have been there for two years, yet it seems to be about salary. Two years is a very long time to have gone without acting upon an incorrect salary, any such claim would probably fail simply down to the timeframe.

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 09/04/2021 21:32

After a year, offered a new position within a company. Advertised at £x per hour. No contract issued. Discovered on starting the new position I was actually going to receive a salary. I resigned after day two in the new position - company refused to honour original advertised hourly rate. I would have been on less than minimum wage for the hours worked.
A contract has been produced which I did not sign, but has been given a digital print of my signature from my original starting contract, which was in a lower position, from last year. The pay rates etc have been inked in with fresh ink as opposed to my digital ‘signature’.

OP posts:

GeronimoHate · 09/04/2021 22:34

You had a contract with an hourly rate of less than the minimum wage - surely that is enough for it to be issue?

flowery · 09/04/2021 23:48

So you had one position for a year, then a new position you resigned after a couple of days? In that case you don’t have the length of service for a constructive dismissal claim?

prh47bridge · 10/04/2021 09:49

@GeronimoHate

You had a contract with an hourly rate of less than the minimum wage - surely that is enough for it to be issue?

It may be that the salary is above NMW if the OP works the contracted hours but drops below NMW if she works unpaid overtime at the same level as she did in her previous role. Whether this is a problem depends on whether overtime would actually be unpaid and how much overtime was needed/expected.

OP - it sounds as if you assumed you would be paid the advertised rate and accepted the new role without agreeing remuneration. You say that the role pays a salary. It isn't clear how the salary relates to the advertised hourly rate (or your previous pay) for the contracted hours.

As Flowery says, you cannot bring a constructive dismissal claim. You haven't worked there long enough. The only way you might have a claim is if the offer letter stated a salary or hourly rate and the actual pay for the contracted hours (i.e. without overtime) is less than that. In that situation you may have a claim for breach of contract.

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 10/04/2021 11:24

No offer letter sent to me.
The contract they say I’ve signed - was never signed by me. They have digitally added my signature from my previous contract. They are saying I agreed to the much lower rate by signing the contract.
Only problem is that I never signed it.

OP posts:

flowery · 10/04/2021 13:04

Ok so what’s the claim? If you have enough to demonstrate that the original hourly rate was contractually agreed, then failure to pay you at that rate would be an unlawful deduction from wages/breach of contract, but that would presumably be a very low level claim if you resigned so quickly- just however many hours you’ve been underpaid.

No constructive dismissal claim though.

flowery · 10/04/2021 13:05

How much difference is the for the couple of days you worked in the job, between what you say you should have been paid and what they have paid you?

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 10/04/2021 13:13

So it’s perfectly ok they forged my signature in a contract?

OP posts:

Original poster

Bargebill19 · 10/04/2021 13:15

And it’s acceptable to lower an hourly rate from £x to £y. Which would mean y would have been less than minimum wage.?

And they wonder why it’s hard to hire people.

OP posts:

prh47bridge · 10/04/2021 14:49

No-one is saying it is ok. The question is whether you have any legal claim against them. Even if you can prove they forged your signature on a contract, that does not automatically give you a claim. There must be some identifiable loss you have suffered.

You can't claim constructive dismissal as you haven't worked there long enough.

You may have a case for breach of contract, but your claim would be for your financial loss, i.e. the difference between what you were paid for the 2 days you did this job and what you should have been paid.

TheMotherlode · 10/04/2021 15:14

Did you only work there for a year then? If so, you have no entitlement to claim constructive dismissal. You can claim for breach of contract for loss of wages, if you can prove the higher rate should have applied, but you won’t be entitled to much as you had only been in that position for a few days.

But you say you have engaged a solicitor, have they not advised you on this?

idontlikealdi · 10/04/2021 15:34

I think you need a solicitor that understands employment law!

flowery · 10/04/2021 19:46

@Bargebill19

So it’s perfectly ok they forged my signature in a contract?

Who said it was ok? Of course it isn’t. And if you have any evidence suggesting the initial hourly rate was contractual, and therefore you’ve been underpaid, you’ll be able to bring an unlawful deduction from wages claim, plus of course it’s unlawful to pay you less than minimum wage anyway.

I was just wondering how much that claim would be worth, given you resigned so quickly.

GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 19:52

Just wondering if this was something you could claim through the small claims court for the difference in wages? It must be very frustrating for the op to feel she has been misled by her employer...the threat might be enough for your employer to pay the disputed amount and move on without legal action.

flowery · 10/04/2021 20:11

”Just wondering if this was something you could claim through the small claims court for the difference in wages?”

Possibly, but it would normally be the employment tribunal for wage claims. If there is evidence of a contractual agreement for the higher amount, that claim should be reasonably straightforward, and certainly anything under Minimum Wage would be easy to claim, but where the issue seems to be is the OP having a solicitor who seems to have suggested there is also a constructive dismissal claim, which OP doesn’t have the required service to bring.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 14/04/2021 08:06

Where did you get the information about the hourly rate from?

Indeed.com pull jobs in from elsewhere, employers don't actively advertise on there. I have advertised jobs previously and the wage has shown differently on there.

daisychain01 · 15/04/2021 20:38

OP you're arguing about a principle here. You're saying your employer lied to you by presenting you with a document you had not seen or signed.

Yes, agreed, their action is untrustworthy and unscrupulous, but what is your actual loss?

You would be ill -advised take it to Tribunal for such an insignificant "loss". Can you tell us what your actual loss is, as I may be reading things wrong and you believe it's a lot more than it seems.

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