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Original poster

Manager on long-term stress leave, what to expect?

29 replies

ConfusedManager · 08/04/2021 08:52

Hi all, I am a long-term lurker but I have NCed to ask this question. FYI I have altered some details to ensure anonymity.

I work for a big corporation in a major city. My manager, who is the head of the team (10+ people), has been signed off from work back in late 2020 for burnout/ stress. I have since then been running the team ad interim, even though I am still formally in a project manager role that wasn't supposed to have any reporting line. I now report to my manager's manager (head of the department). I have received enthusiastic feedback from my new manager about my work and the way I have been running the team.

She mentioned that she'd like me to continue leading the team long-term, but she didn't provide any clarity on whether this would be an informal arrangement like now (with me technically still in my lower level role but effectively running the team) or a formal one (me getting a formal promotion). She also mentioned that she wants to reshape my old manager's role when he comes back.

My old manager's leave was initially meant to last 2 months, but it keeps being extended with doctor notes. The latest update is that my old manager might come back in early June, but no certainty.

I wanted to ask if any of you has experience of what might happen in a similar scenario? Have you seen a situation like this playing out in the corporate world, and if so what was the outcome? Is it likely that old manager will come back to the previous role they had, or a different role? Or not coming back at all? I don't know what to expect and the uncertainty is starting to weigh on me.

Thank you for any perspective on this, I am very grateful to anyone who has any experience to share.

OP posts:
Aprilx · 08/04/2021 10:59

I have had a long career (three decades) in the corporate world and I think your “new manager’s” behaviour is appalling and likely to result in legal action. They should not be going about indicating that they would like to give somebody’s job to somebody else following a sickness nor should they be discussing reshaping your managers role behind their back. Not surprised they are off sick for stress if this is indicative of how this manager behaves.

Original poster
ConfusedManager · 08/04/2021 11:50

@Aprilx

I have had a long career (three decades) in the corporate world and I think your “new manager’s” behaviour is appalling and likely to result in legal action. They should not be going about indicating that they would like to give somebody’s job to somebody else following a sickness nor should they be discussing reshaping your managers role behind their back. Not surprised they are off sick for stress if this is indicative of how this manager behaves.
Actually I agree with you, it made me pause when she said that as I thought there could be legal implications around that.
OP posts:
satoutside · 08/04/2021 12:31

I am another voice echoing previous posters. I can guarantee you that the picture your line manager is painting for you is not the full story here. I’ve seen this too many times now. It is likely that behind the scenes the manager off sick is being managed out/manoeuvred out to make room for you to keep their job. Flattering to you.... until the same thing happens to you.

WeAllHaveWings · 08/04/2021 12:47

New manager is overstepping and trying to keep you sweet while they need you.

There won't/can't be anything concrete until your manager can discuss a return to work/changes to their role.

I've even seen it in the past where a new role has been eventually defined but the person who was acting up into that role didn't get it when it was opened to applicants.

You do have an advantage IF the role comes up as you are gaining experience, and it looks good on CV for other opportunities, but at the moment that is all you can expect.

Original poster
ConfusedManager · 09/04/2021 10:49

I have now been asked to come up with a few proposals for what old manager's duties could be when he is back, based on different degrees of health conditions (he is fully ready to jump back in vs he is still feeling v fragile).

Surely this is not the normal way to handle things? I am starting to be a bit Hmm

OP posts:
FawnDrench · 09/04/2021 17:55

What??
This is absolutely NOT your responsibility.
It is unethical to say the very least.
What the hell is this so-called manager playing at?
This is HER issue to sort out.
I can't believe it!
You should bat this straight back and go higher with your concerns.

Also, I hope you are receiving acting up pay for taking on the additional management of the team...

daisychain01 · 09/04/2021 18:02

Totally inappropriate and now asking you to spec out his role, unbelievably crass. Not your job, HR should be doing that, don't get involved as you'll be tarred with their brush if a tribunal case were to be lodged. Stay safely away. They are undoubtedly cosying up to you so you'll think you're one of the chosen, but don't be fooled.

If they can do this to a manager signed off on stress leave, there are no limits to what they're capable of doing to you later down the line. You're only flavour of the month because it suits them.

GeronimoHate · 09/04/2021 20:23

Surely it should be a combination of everyone involved - HR, Senior manager and off sick manager - excluding the OP to spec out the manager's new role.
Having a Senior manager with work based stress and anxiety issues is not easy to handle - ours left and we were sad to see them go but relieved because they did not wish to do the job of a senior manager and that was going to be hard to deal with.

ThinkYouveHadTooMuch · 09/04/2021 20:29

OP, if I were you would be looking elsewhere. There is no way I would work for a manager which such little knowledge of HR and compassion. It's all good while your on the up but what happens if you get poorly etc? It's manager like this that screw people over and I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!

GeronimoHate · 09/04/2021 21:44

It's all good while your on the up but what happens if you get poorly etc? Manager has been ill from late 2020 not returning to June 21 - how long do you think a business should pay sick leave? I expect they are paying more than SSP or the Manager would be back at work or moving on.

ThinkYouveHadTooMuch · 09/04/2021 22:46

My work would support me on full pay for 9 months and half pay for a further 6, as they should! I work hard and deserve security if I become incapacitated.

Most good work places have the same sort of policy

GeronimoHate · 09/04/2021 23:04

@ThinkYouveHadTooMuch

My work would support me on full pay for 9 months and half pay for a further 6, as they should! I work hard and deserve security if I become incapacitated.

Most good work places have the same sort of policy

You are very lucky but you are deluded it is certainly not a "most good places" policy!
Original poster
ConfusedManager · 10/04/2021 10:57

@ThinkYouveHadTooMuch

My work would support me on full pay for 9 months and half pay for a further 6, as they should! I work hard and deserve security if I become incapacitated.

Most good work places have the same sort of policy

Well technically the company is supporting old manager, and he will have a job upon his return. I just suspect it won't be a job with as much responsibility and pressure as the one he had before.
OP posts:
MissMarks · 10/04/2021 11:03

He has full legal rights to come back to the same job. If he doesn’t he can take a case for constructive dismissal. As he is also off with mental health, which is protected characteristic, they will have to be very very careful.

GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 11:05

I thought it was disability which is a protected characteristic and mental health can be included under certain circumstances but not automatically.

MissMarks · 10/04/2021 11:08

Well I wouldn’t be taking any chances. Our employment solicitors have always been extremely risk averse when dealing with staff off with depression for example on the basis it is a protected characteristic.

GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 11:43

@MissMarks

Well I wouldn’t be taking any chances. Our employment solicitors have always been extremely risk averse when dealing with staff off with depression for example on the basis it is a protected characteristic.
But depression is not a protected characteristic.
GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 11:45

@MissMarks

Well I wouldn’t be taking any chances. Our employment solicitors have always been extremely risk averse when dealing with staff off with depression for example on the basis it is a protected characteristic.
And lawyers give advice, business owners make a judgement. For us it would often be cheaper to risk going to tribunal than have a senior manager who couldn't do their job.
Blankiefan · 10/04/2021 14:11

In my experience (of managing over 500 people across my career to date), either the manager won't return or he will but will struggle. If its the latter, the Business will manage him thru a prolonged phased return which will be stop/start and will ultimately end in the manager leaving via a compromise agreement (in all likelihood prompted by a grievance he raises about being bullied).

Its not your fight. Try to stay out of it as much as possible. Its shit that your manager is getting you to write the phased return. You're well placed to do it but it's lazy.

Take the experience you're getting whilst you're in role / patching over the cracks of the returning manager(if you're asked) and keep your expectations low. They are the only things you can control in this situation. Unless you think it's a poor enough culture and you're in a position to leave. Longer term, the management experience should help you find your next role.

MissMarks · 10/04/2021 16:40

Depression isn’t a protected characteristic but disability is- and that is where it is open to interpretation.
My point is there isn’t a quick fix to deal with someone off long term with mental health and you need to ensure you do things properly, such as referral to occupational health/ reasonable adjustments etc, or are wide open to a case for constructive dismissal.

GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 17:51

@MissMarks

Depression isn’t a protected characteristic but disability is- and that is where it is open to interpretation. My point is there isn’t a quick fix to deal with someone off long term with mental health and you need to ensure you do things properly, such as referral to occupational health/ reasonable adjustments etc, or are wide open to a case for constructive dismissal.
On this thread the OP's Manager has been off since late 2020 with mental health problems - that becomes a disability after a year. Whether you want to treat it as a disability before then is not required but of course it depends on a commercial decision taken by management on risk.
GeronimoHate · 10/04/2021 20:55

Our employment solicitors have always been extremely risk averse when dealing with staff off with depression for example on the basis it is a protected characteristic. Lawyers advise and being extremely risk averse means they may advise in an extreme approach avoiding tribunals at all costs - which is not commercially astute - I'd be worried such lawyers were only worried about their performance if it is measured as avoiding lawsuits at all costs. Senior managers who can't do their job need to be let go - it's not a way to run business even if they bring you to a tribunal - you need to be able to trust your staff can do their job properly - poor managers are a liability to more than themselves - the staff and the business suffer.

MissMarks · 10/04/2021 23:01

They may have not been off a year on this occasion but we don’t know what the past history is/ how long they have been on treatment etc.

GeronimoHate · 11/04/2021 05:40

@MissMarks

They may have not been off a year on this occasion but we don’t know what the past history is/ how long they have been on treatment etc.
They may have, you don’t know but you have made several statements that are confusing and untrue - mental health problems are not a defined as a disability until they have been diagnosed for a year - there is no mention that this is the case, your projections are not helping
Original poster
ConfusedManager · 11/04/2021 09:16

My understanding is that old boss had a proper medical burnout which made him developed a stress-related heart condition.

Of course I haven't read his medical notes so I can't be sure that depression is not a factor in the situation, but based on a few conversations that I had with him before he went off sick I think the bulk of the problem might be his burnout and his heart.

OP posts:
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