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Original poster

HR and confientiality

28 replies

Iwantmychairback · 01/04/2021 10:57

Am I being a bit sensitive here?
I am off work for at least two weeks.
I spoke to my boss and told him the reason why.I agreed that he should tell my co worker (S) why I wouldn’t be in , as she would need to do an urgent job for me.

Yesterday, I emailed my Fit Note directly to the HR person. He emailed me back by replying to my original email, but also copying in my boss and S.
Now, I have nothing to hide, and no reason why these two shouldn’t know why I am off work, but if I had told them I was off for one reason, but emailed HR with a sick note which stated another reason, then surely he has breached confidentiality here?

OP posts:
Aprilx · 01/04/2021 11:13

Telling your boss one reason and then having a sick note with another reason, sounds like something to hide to me. 🧐

I think it was deeply inappropriate to copy in your colleague, however I think it is perfectly normal for a manager to be privy to sick notes / for for work notes.

Original poster
Iwantmychairback · 01/04/2021 12:07

Sorry, I wasn’t clear in that post. Obviously my boss and HR would need to know the real reason that I was off, but my colleagues don’t.
For all HR know, my boss could have told S another reason, just to explain my absence, but by sharing my fit note, she would now know the real reason.
I have told everyone exactly why I’m off - nothing to hide. The issue is with how it was dealt with my HR.
This is the second issue I’ve had, first being them making comments like ‘ you can’t be skint - don’t forget I know how much you earn ‘ type comments in front of other members of staff.

OP posts:
TaraR2020 · 01/04/2021 12:37

Yes of course confidentiality was breached, there are no circumstances under which your colleague should have sight of your sick note.

Its an uncontrolled document now.

notapizzaeater · 02/04/2021 10:29

Hasn't your sick note git lots if personal info on like address etc ? I'd be furious tbh.

CoRhona · 02/04/2021 15:00

Agree with pp - fine for your manager to see, not for your colleague.

Bluntness100 · 02/04/2021 15:02

I don’t really understand, you said S could know. So you gave permission.

Did you ask them to tell her a different reason?

Wateruniform · 02/04/2021 15:02

Yes, HR have breached your confidentiality.

Bluntness100 · 02/04/2021 15:03

@Wateruniform

Yes, HR have breached your confidentiality.
How? She gave permission for S to know.
Ginandtonic4all · 02/04/2021 15:06

I am a Head of HR. On the information supplied, HR are in the wrong. We would it even share the note the the Line Manager. We would confirm we had a fit note and nothing more. Without express permission from the employee. If there was no reason for the second colleague to see your fit note (which it sounds like there isn't) I would be investigating the error a member of my team has made.

Ginandtonic4all · 02/04/2021 15:06

Wouldnot share!

EarringsandLipstick · 02/04/2021 15:25

All S needed to know was that you were sick, and wouldn't be in for 2 weeks.

There's no need at all to share your personal information & details of your illness. Completely wrong of HR.

In my organisation, they've got even tighter about this. We are encouraged to limit the amount of people that are aware a team member is on sick leave. We just say 'absent' and to the wider organisation, we might say we can't deliver something due to staff availability, with no further details. As line manager, I'm not meant to see sick notes, tho my team do often send them to me. But they aren't required to, they should go to HR, who then let me know I can approve leave.

Bluntness100 · 02/04/2021 15:32

@Ginandtonic4all

I am a Head of HR. On the information supplied, HR are in the wrong. We would it even share the note the the Line Manager. We would confirm we had a fit note and nothing more. Without express permission from the employee. If there was no reason for the second colleague to see your fit note (which it sounds like there isn't) I would be investigating the error a member of my team has made.
But she did give permission. She told her boss it was fine for her colleague to know. There is a huge chance hr knew this and that’s why they did it,
Pinkraven · 02/04/2021 15:49

But they aren't required to, they should go to HR, who then let me know I can approve leave. You mean you can let the team member know that HR have approved leave - you have no information to approve anything, one wonders why HR bother getting you to do this job - it would be more efficient for them to do it.

AntiHop · 02/04/2021 15:56

Was the details of your illness in the body of the email? If it was only in the attached fit note, then the attachment wouldn't be in the reply anyway.

TitsOot4Xmas · 02/04/2021 16:17

@Ginandtonic4all

I am a Head of HR. On the information supplied, HR are in the wrong. We would it even share the note the the Line Manager. We would confirm we had a fit note and nothing more. Without express permission from the employee. If there was no reason for the second colleague to see your fit note (which it sounds like there isn't) I would be investigating the error a member of my team has made.
I’m a HR director and I wouldn’t want HR seeing a fitnote before the manager did.

That said, nobody should be sharing a fit note as described in the OP.

TitsOot4Xmas · 02/04/2021 16:19

As line manager, I'm not meant to see sick notes, tho my team do often send them to me. But they aren't required to, they should go to HR, who then let me know I can approve leave.

Why ever not?! What are you managing exactly if not people and their issues? Sounds pretty backwards to me.

EarringsandLipstick · 02/04/2021 17:12

@Pinkraven

But they aren't required to, they should go to HR, who then let me know I can approve leave. You mean you can let the team member know that HR have approved leave - you have no information to approve anything, one wonders why HR bother getting you to do this job - it would be more efficient for them to do it.
No, in our system I have to approve the leave on the system. HR (or our senior admin person) notifies me the cert has been received so that I can approve leave.

Might seem confusing but it's a public sector role in Ireland and does make sense really!

EarringsandLipstick · 02/04/2021 17:16

@TitsOot4Xmas

As line manager, I'm not meant to see sick notes, tho my team do often send them to me. But they aren't required to, they should go to HR, who then let me know I can approve leave.

Why ever not?! What are you managing exactly if not people and their issues? Sounds pretty backwards to me.

No, you don't understand how the public sector (Ireland) works! (Tho the same was true in a private sector management role I did too.).

I have no right to know the medical details of anyone I manage. They must send the cert to HR. I do need to know if my team are unwell - but that's it. The details, no

Why would anyone other than HR need the details?🤷🏻‍♀️

To manage my team I need to know if they'll be in or not, and if they are sick, but not anything further. But in practice, people to discuss their personal details with me. But that's up to them.

EarringsandLipstick · 02/04/2021 17:18

Also, not sure what sounds so 'backward' to you @TitsOot4Xmas ?

It's just protection for the staff member. No reflection on what my overall management roles are.

Back to OP, you should definitely raise your concern about personal information being shared in this fashion.

Pinkraven · 02/04/2021 17:25

@EarringsandLipstick glad it makes sense to you!😂

TitsOot4Xmas · 02/04/2021 17:40

No, you don't understand how the public sector (Ireland) works! (Tho the same was true in a private sector management role I did too.).

I’ve been in HR for 21 years. 18 of those in the public sector in England and Wales. Local authority, devolved administration, Whitehall and NHS. In none of those places would HR be the only people to see a fit note.

I have no right to know the medical details of anyone I manage. They must send the cert to HR. I do need to know if my team are unwell - but that's it. The details, no

Don’t you conduct sickness meetings and return to works? Don’t you stay in touch with them while they’re off?

Why would anyone other than HR need the details?🤷🏻‍♀️

Each of my staff supports managers to manage their staff. At a ratio of around 1 HR advisor to 15 managers and 350 staff, if they did all the sickness management they’d need to work 24/7 and couldn’t do anything else!

TitsOot4Xmas · 02/04/2021 17:50

Ulrich’s HR Business Partnering model has been around for over 30 years now. What you describe is very much “old fashioned” HR. More Personnel, actually. Hence seeming “backward” to me.

Original poster
Iwantmychairback · 03/04/2021 13:39

@Bluntness100

I don’t really understand, you said S could know. So you gave permission.

Did you ask them to tell her a different reason?

HR didn’t know that I had given my boss permission to tell S. HR didn’t know that S was given the ‘correct’ reason for my absence.....
OP posts:
Brunilde · 03/04/2021 14:05

As someone has already said a fit note will have your address on which is personal data and should not have been shared with your colleague. Regardless of the murky situation regarding you saying your colleague could know details of your illness. As far as your manager goes, everywhere I have ever worked your line manager would be told why you were off as they would need to manage any absense and ensure you could do the role on your return. This is not something HR would be involved in other than supporting your manager to manage you

EarringsandLipstick · 03/04/2021 15:20

@TitsOot4Xmas

No, you don't understand how the public sector (Ireland) works! (Tho the same was true in a private sector management role I did too.).

I’ve been in HR for 21 years. 18 of those in the public sector in England and Wales. Local authority, devolved administration, Whitehall and NHS. In none of those places would HR be the only people to see a fit note.

I have no right to know the medical details of anyone I manage. They must send the cert to HR. I do need to know if my team are unwell - but that's it. The details, no

Don’t you conduct sickness meetings and return to works? Don’t you stay in touch with them while they’re off?

Why would anyone other than HR need the details?🤷🏻‍♀️

Each of my staff supports managers to manage their staff. At a ratio of around 1 HR advisor to 15 managers and 350 staff, if they did all the sickness management they’d need to work 24/7 and couldn’t do anything else!

Nope to most of that. System is entirely different in Ireland eg no 'keeping in touch' when on sick leave.

Not saying that isn't a good idea but it absolutely doesn't happen here.