Annual leave problems

[nevernotstruggling]

I have been redeployed recently. The work side of things is great. However the leave culture is weird and I need help. I've worked in my industry 13 years for 2 employers. Until now it's always been (in both settings) that per team only 2 staff can take leave at the same time (with some flexibility if it's a wedding etc) and that if you request x leave, unless 2 staff are already booked them it's approved save for mandatory work tasks (we do court work). Due partly to said court work leave requests far into the future are granted and a normal expectation for example booking a week off in December for a foreign hol.

So redeployed to new dept. Had a staff move meeting and no mention of special policies around leave. I keep trying to book leave. Leave requests remain not responded to either way. I chase manager who replies that it 'should be fine' or worse 'I need to check if anyone else wants those days as it 'has to be fair'. I'm pulling my hair out. Last time I ended up with a partial week which wasn't even formally approved when I took it.

Company policy states 'reasonable notice must be given for leave bookings' no mention of employment law which if I've got this right states that employer must deny leave at least 2 weeks before the start date if it's a week for example.

One of my ignored bookings is a half day in terms time when noting much is happening except that's the first appointment my hairdresser gave me!

Any ideas before I ring Union?

Ask your manager directly how leave works in your new dept?

@MoreWater

Ask your manager directly how leave works in your new dept?

I have. Sadly I got this 'well I need to check who else wants time off' I thought that was the purpose of a leave request...

Can you escalate to HR?

@hopeishere

Can you escalate to HR?

Yes if I need to. I've never encountered this before!

Anything in the employee handbook (if it exists, I've worked for a few businesses that don't have one)

Is your line manager a bit inexperienced/ineffective? Do they know how to manage leave? Is there a spreadsheet? Can you suggest one? Before I’d escalate I’d probably speak to them directly (via email) with my leave days and say you require approval by [insert date]. Chase them closer to the time, explaining its important as you need to manage commitments/appointments. If they don’t get back to you explain you’ll be taking it further and go to HR.

@ZackaryQuack

Anything in the employee handbook (if it exists, I've worked for a few businesses that don't have one)

I'm all over that. It just states employees must give 'reasonable notice'

@greatauntfanny

Is your line manager a bit inexperienced/ineffective? Do they know how to manage leave? Is there a spreadsheet? Can you suggest one? Before I’d escalate I’d probably speak to them directly (via email) with my leave days and say you require approval by [insert date]. Chase them closer to the time, explaining its important as you need to manage commitments/appointments. If they don’t get back to you explain you’ll be taking it further and go to HR.

Newest of the dept managers but couple years in maybe I'm not sure. Otherwise I have no beef with them just this leave thing. The email with the dates is the best idea I expect as it's the record of me trying to resolve it. I hate starting conflicts like this but the uncertainty is really affecting me.

I always get asked to check with my team who else is off. Our team email each other to a DL to ask. Then if a boss still hasn't answered my holiday request etc I mention it casually on team meetings LOL.

I think it’s a good idea to speak to the manager again before getting HR and unions involved, and just point out to them how much stress and uncertainty this is causing you and that it’s becoming a real problem, which is a shame as everything else is working out so well in the new department. I’d follow it up with an email reiterating that and asking for leave to be approved or not within a fortnight of your submitting the request maybe? And then escalate it only when/if that hasn’t happened? Sometimes I think managers just don’t realise how much things like this can stress you out!

Or tell the manager how leave worked on your previous a department and ask if there is any reason it can’t work the same that? Sounds like a decent policy and that this new dept just has never formalised it, it may be that there have traditionally never been leave clashes among the other staff there so it’s just never really come up as an issue and nobody’s ever really had to give too much thought to it.

@Mygardenisnotperfect

I think it’s a good idea to speak to the manager again before getting HR and unions involved, and just point out to them how much stress and uncertainty this is causing you and that it’s becoming a real problem, which is a shame as everything else is working out so well in the new department. I’d follow it up with an email reiterating that and asking for leave to be approved or not within a fortnight of your submitting the request maybe? And then escalate it only when/if that hasn’t happened? Sometimes I think managers just don’t realise how much things like this can stress you out!

That's a proportionate response I think. I've come back after significant stress leave and this is really triggering.

I ask my team to scope out their colleagues about who wants leave at a certain time, I don't think that's unreasonable, but it would be good to have a time frame that your requests come back in.

I had this in a workplace. I used to say “dear manager, please may I have x y and z dates as leave? I can confirm I am not aware of any conflicting work or other team holiday requests.”
This gets you out of going round everyone and might just be enough to make the manager say Yes sure.

Argh, how ridiculous.

I would reply that in you role as X you are not privy to the leave requests of your dept (or if there is a group calendar then state that no one has that time off) and that she is and therefore can she let you know if anyone has already booked that day off or not.

I would state that you understand the need for fairness in allocating prime times off such as Christmas or Eid or school holidays etc and that she must ensure the same person doesn't monopolise these days, however this half day in X is not a particularly special day.

I would state the staff handbook does not state a time frame in which leave request can be made, and yet her policy is basically that you cannot book anything in advance and have to wait nearer the time. But a non specified timeframe at that. For instance some companies operate a leave year of Jan to Dec and staff are open to make bookings from the Sept before, it is advertised as such so everyone knows they have to get organised and all requests go in at the same time to be allocated.

I would tell her that it's very stressful not being able to plan leave days in advance. How are you supposed to book a holiday?

I would probably copy HR in to be honest. But I see you would rather not. Or maybe I would have a chat to someone there first.

Just looked at the system and realised I've been waiting a month for mgr to approve a half day in a quiet week.

@nevernotstruggling

Just looked at the system and realised I've been waiting a month for mgr to approve a half day in a quiet week.

Its common for bosses to be rubbish at approving holiday, its just bottom of their priority list. Get them to approve it while on team meetings / 121s.

Leave has been sorted out. I've had a really nice call from team manager after I sent them about 20 annoying notifications. The plan now is the team will be requested to think further ahead with leave requests to support members with other commitments. I'm really happy with the outcome so expect my stress headache to calm down a bit!
Thanks for all the support xx