Breast feeding & being asked to stay overnight away from home - HELP!

[pipsi100]

I have returned to work p.time & am still b/fing. My boss has been brilliant at allowing me to work flexi-time and changing my role so that I can work closer to home - however I have now been asked to go away on various courses all of which require over-night stays of 1 or 2 nights. 3 in total over the next 4 weeks. Does anyone know what the law is on this?
Part of me thinks just get on with it, that i will just have to pump and dump and myDS2 will have to have a bottle whilst I'm away. But part of me thinks maybe there is another way.
Any suggestions ideas would be appreciated.

This is a tricky one for you and sorry but I dont know the answer in terms of your legal rights. Have you told your boss you are b-feeding? How old is your LO?

My LO is 10months old, so he is only having 3 feeds a day. I have spoken to our HR department and she has said I am free to travel up and back each day if I choose but I would have to leave home at 6am and not get home till nearly 7.30pm so doesn't really help with feeding and then just involves 5 hours travelling for me each day!
My boss does know i'm b.feeding but being a man doesn't really seem to understand what it involves being away from home for 48 hours.
I guess its also such an emotional thing as it will be the first time i have been away from him over-night.

I've done this but only a couple of times and my DD was over a year old. 1 or 2 nights away is not going to make that much difference to your supply at this stage, plus if you're pumping you'll be OK. The most angushing aspect is really the leaving of little one, esp at that age where separation anxirty might be a problem. In my DD's case it went well, she and her Dad coped well after all(despite my weeks of worry) Who would you leave your DS with? And does he habitually spend a lot of time with this person/know this person well? If the answer is yes, he'll be OK. You'll miss him, but babies have no sense of time so will notice your absence less.

I now have the prospect of week long stays away (going farther afield) and am filled with angst at the idea of leaving my DD for so long. She's now 2 but I'm still bfeeding (which will have to stop as I refuse to pump) and her Dad is a bit crap about the practical things. I'm sure everything will be OK in the end, but the thought just fills me with sadness, so I do understand where you're coming from.

sorry, i don't know but hope you can work something out
brangelina, i spent a week away from ds2 at similar age and we just picked up where we left off so no need to stop if you don't want. i didn't express

pipsi - ask about this on the breastfeeding and bottle feeding board.

You do have some protection, but it's not all that great.

There is some employment info on the NCT website at www.nct.org.uk

It's actually a wider issue than breastfeeding, though, and in fact I would say it's more about mothers and small children needing to be close, and overnight stays not being very welcome in that context.

Your breastfeeding will survive a night off, but it's you as well as your milk that's important

They will be with their dad am & pm and with the c/m in the day. I knew it would come at some stage but we have only just got into a new routine in the last month and now this feels like a whole other thing to get my head around. So i guess I am looking for a get out of jail for free card.

Your right they will be fine - I hope. But I feel a bit for my DP as he hasn't ever had too look after the 2 of them for longer than a morning. And is pants in the morning so the 6am wake up wail will be a shock for him.
I had to twice leave my DS1 for a week at a time when he was just 1. it's a tough thing to get your head around isn't it ? For some reason I feel more protective over my DS2 as guess he is still and probably will always be the 'baby'.

I don't think my DP would mind if he got to go away - he'd be thinking peaceful mealtimes and a lie in, maybe we should shift our perspective?

Tiktok thanks - I rang the DSE helpline number but they put me back in contact with my local council environmental health!

It will be very hard to be away from them both - as you say overnight stay is not welcome when I feel he still needs me physically & emotionally. If only we had the oppertunity to have longer paid maternity leave.

I would have found that really hard with DS1 at that stage and feel the same with DS2. Am lucky that I worl for myself so do need to have nights away.
Could you perhaps try and travel there and back on a couple of occasions so you minimise the nights away, then you can do the morning and night feed ok? Appreciate this means long and tiring days for you but it might be easier for you all than leaving your DS overnight.

Can you compromise and either go on one of the training courses or space them out so you don;t have to do them all in that time?

Do you have a friend or relative who could come with you, bringing DS2, so that you can carry on the same routine.
My company paid for accommodation for me, nanny and the two children when I was in this situation and had to go away for a week on business. It worked out really well - they went out and about in the daytime (she was down to two feeds a day) and I carried on working.

I'm an employment lawyer but I have to say I don't know the answer off the top of my head. I will check it and come back to you.

However the following thoughts occur - are you contracted to work these additional hours? Could anyone else do the overnight stays? Are you aware of anyone else who has been allowed to not do the stays.

I think the company are being extremely unreasonable in forcing you to attend. Do they reaslise that you have a problem with it? What if you were a single parent, you would not be able to do overnight stays then.

There will be a potential sex discrimination angle here if they forced you to go.

I have refused to do any overnight stays now that I have primary childcare responsibilities. My firm are understanding (but then they know that I know the law and will kick up a fuss if they don't accommodate me)

Let me have a think about it and come back to you. My brain hasn't been functioning since DS2 came along 4 months ago!

I think I would've refused to go ( in the nicest possible way) in your situation.
I travel quite regularly for my job but not before my dd was 2. Thankfully have kind employers. But why not have a heart to heart with your boss about it? he may be a man but IME men CAN be v sympathetic even if they don't really understand....

HI,

Not sure exactly about the technicalities but employers have to facilitate you if you are breastfeeding and taking you away from your child for 3 nights isn't going to do that!

I'm sure they wouldn't make you go, as ellehcim says, it is slightly discriminatory. Most employers woudl run a mile if they thought they were suggesting anythign that would land them in that kind of trouble. Have a word with them and see what they say. Good luck.

Pipsi, have you actually tried saying to your work that you don't want to do the courses for a while and asking whether you can postpone? I know HR's first response wasn't helpful, but they may have misunderstood the issue (i.e. they may have thought that you wanted to do the course, but not be away overnight).

Unless you need the course to keep working (e.g. it's a legal requirement that you keep a certain certificate up to date and there's no closer course) I don't see why you can't just ask to do the course next time round. Yes, it's 'taking your foot off the gas' slightly career wise, but why not for a few months? I think that, legally, if they forced you to attend in these circumstances, they would be in a difficult position with potential indirect sex discrimination.

Thanks there is some really good advice here. I don't 'need' to do the course's as a legal requirement it's just my company has got a huge push on cultures and values at the mo & these are all part of upskilling management - so I feel after having the last 11 months off I need to play a bit of catch up. As they are area training courses I would be the only one who doesn't attend now. But I will go back to my boss on monday to see what level of comprimise can be gained - maybe later start times and earlier finish times ?

I'll let you know.

You or your baby could suffer a detriment if you do the night away so thats potentially a breach of health and safety and in turn possible sex discrimination.

You just need to explain that as you are breastfeeding you are unable to be away from your baby for those hours (a long day or overnight).

They should look at doing a risk assessment for you to cover these circumstances and you could highlight the issues there - painful breasts, leakage, and the fact your baby wouldn't be fed for that amount of time if you were unable to express for example. There is also the element of stress by being put in the situation. I assume they have already done a risk assessment for you since returning?

Chocolatekimmy, no they haven't done a risk assessment for me since returning as they thought that as my DS2 was over 6 months old I was not classed as a 'new' mother & therefore did not need a risk assesment.

If I didn't attend these courses I would potentially have to travel further next time as these are in Cardiff & Bristol & London - our HO is in Yorkshire so they deem these to be South for training. I live in Exeter, Devon.

I dislike feeling like I'm making a fuss as another manager has recently had a baby and has returned to work after 4 months and has no problems in attending. My LO is 10 monthgs old and hers is 3 months.

From everyones advice I feel stronger in being able to state my case - why do I find the word NO so hard to say?

I know it's really tough, but PLEASE try not to compare yourself with your colleague. Just because she can do it does not mean that you have to. For a start, she might have different circumstances. If she has come back so early it sounds like she is probably bottle feeding, which is obviously a lot easier to hand over to someone else for a night. Also, even if she is expressing, just because she's superwoman doesn't mean that you have to be!

I know it's difficult to say no, but I honestly think that, although about 10% of employers are being bastards about this type of thing, 90% of those who ask difficult things just don't realise the magnitude of what they're asking. It's surprising how often, if you spell things out and stand your ground, they will accomadate you. I've even seen some employers mortified that they didn't realise how unreasonable they were being.

Finally, it sounds like your company is a big one. Surely over the next few months they will need to re run this couse closer to Exeter for new joiners etc? I'm all for values and upskilling, but in all honesty it doesn't sound like a vital course!

Do come back and tell us what happens. Happy to help more if needed!

The issue of being asked to go on a residential course has arisen for me a couple of times at work. However I think that I may have had the 'advantage' over you, as I work in the public sector.

Each time, I have made it clear that I was not prepared to leave my child overnight. On one occasion, I said that if they insisted, I would ask my union to intervene (my rep had told me that as I wasn't contracted to work the hours, I couldn't be made to go).

On one of the occasions, my employer arranged a special non-residential course for employees with caring responsibilities.

In your situation, I would emphasise the potential medical impact on both you and your child of not being able to b/f.

Thanks everyone - It's been a bit of a hectic week but just a quick update - I have now managed to re-negotiate what training I need to attend, and only am only going to stay away 1 night in total.

My HR were not great generally, very vague and passed the buck to my boss, but my boss once I explained how difficult it was going to be was much more understanding.

It still means alot of travel but I'm getting extra time off in leiu for the effort so hopefully the plus will be some extra time with the children nearer christmas!

Glad to hear your boss was understanding once you explained. Hope it goes well.