Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

Occupational Health Recommendation - HR

26 replies

Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:00

Hello
Won't go into too much detail but husband has been off sick with workplace bullying. He asked to be moved departments. HR have refused to permanently move him.
Had a Occ Health assessment and GP has recommended he is moved departments in order for him to get better, as suffering high anxiety levels and if returned to same department will never recover.
Does anyone know if HR refuse to move and say he has to stay in same department what would happen?
If Occ Health have advised for him to be moved does HR now have an obligation to agree to this?
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks x

OP posts:
VocalDuck · 15/03/2021 18:04

HR/employer only need to make a reasonable adjustment if your DH’s condition comes under the Equality Act. They can refuse to move him and if he is unable to return due to sickness, they could look to end his contract (dismiss him).

Is it a big company?

Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:04

There are plenty of jobs in other areas of the organisation that he could be transferred over to.

OP posts:
Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:06

@VocalDuck

HR/employer only need to make a reasonable adjustment if your DH’s condition comes under the Equality Act. They can refuse to move him and if he is unable to return due to sickness, they could look to end his contract (dismiss him).

Is it a big company?

What would a reasonable adjustment be? He has been bullied for over a year now and is now classes as having a disability as it has affected his mental health so much. Does HR have to follow occ health's advice?
OP posts:
VocalDuck · 15/03/2021 18:06

HR would need to justify their reasoning behind not moving him so it would be good if your DH can prepare for anything in advance, in case he needs to fight it.

HR don’t need to follow Occ Health’s guidance but they do more often than not.

VocalDuck · 15/03/2021 18:07

Do Occ Health state they consider his mental health to be covered by the EA?

Usagi12 · 15/03/2021 18:08

They need to follow it if they can, what are the reasons they've given you for turning it down? Your husband should have had that in writing.

AlexaShutUp · 15/03/2021 18:08

It isn't obligatory for them to follow OH advice, no. They are just recommendations that are made without any reference to what is actually possible for the business. It's for the relevant managers and HR to decide whether it's viable from a business perspective to implement the recommendations. Obviously, it is good practice to take them on board where possible, but they don't have to.

VocalDuck · 15/03/2021 18:10

A reasonable adjustment is very varying. So it could well be to move him to a different department, working hours to avoid the bullying etc. However, they could argue there is a business need against this.

They could also say they can’t accommodate what your DH wants and look at a settlement for him to leave. Or they might not do that and opt to go down the dismissal route. It’s so unpredictable- some employers are good ones but some aren’t. HR typically work for the company and not the employee. Occ Health should be much more neutral.

Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:11

@Usagi12

They need to follow it if they can, what are the reasons they've given you for turning it down? Your husband should have had that in writing.
He has requested to be transferred and to return to work so he can move on positively. They have just not commented when he has requested this
OP posts:
Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:12

@VocalDuck

Do Occ Health state they consider his mental health to be covered by the EA?
Not sure if they mentioned that. How do i find that out please?
OP posts:
Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:14

His GP has diagnosed with severe depression and high levels of anxiety because of the workplace bullying. As its gone on for over 1 year he would be classed as having a disability. So I guess this would be covered by the EA?

OP posts:
Moondust001 · 15/03/2021 18:16

What was the outcome of his grievance?

Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:18

@Moondust001

What was the outcome of his grievance?
We don't know outcome yet
OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 15/03/2021 18:20

Are there any performance management processes in place, OP, or just the grievance?

I doubt they'll make a decision about his request for a transfer until the grievance process has been concluded. How long have you been waiting?

Original poster
Googleboxfan · 15/03/2021 18:24

@AlexaShutUp

Are there any performance management processes in place, OP, or just the grievance?

I doubt they'll make a decision about his request for a transfer until the grievance process has been concluded. How long have you been waiting?

This has all taken 6 months from first reporting this to HR. No proof as everything bully's have done is all verbal. Husband had no issues with performance in fact out performing others
OP posts:
Moondust001 · 15/03/2021 18:27

We don't know outcome yet

And that is your problem. Under no circumstances will HR or the employer preempt the outcome of a grievance. Put bluntly, you GP is quite at liberty to diagnose depression or anxiety, but they are not at liberty to "diagnose" bullying. They have not seen anything and have no evidence to support the one sided version they have been told by a patient. The grievance is not concluded, and your husband is asking to be moved permanently to another job because of bullying that the employer had not yet concluded had taken place. It is unrealistic to expect the employer to give him the outcome he wants without them having determined that the bullying he alleges has taken place.

AlexaShutUp · 15/03/2021 18:35

I completely agree with @Moondust001.

Six months seems quite a slow process. Have they followed the timelines set out within the grievance procedures?

Moondust001 · 15/03/2021 18:42

@AlexaShutUp

I completely agree with *@Moondust001*.

Six months seems quite a slow process. Have they followed the timelines set out within the grievance procedures?

I may be assuming too much, but I'd expect that the sick leave has caused the slowing of the process. People diagnosed with mental health disorders often ask for no or minimal contact, and for processes to be put on hold until they are well enough to manage them. The employer is then stymied - the need to comply reasonably, but then even if they think the allegation is true, they can't prejudge the outcome and give the accused person grounds to complain.
AlexaShutUp · 15/03/2021 18:47

Yes, I wondered the same about the sickness absence slowing things down.

TDMN · 16/03/2021 23:52

Hi OP,

As others have said, as the grievance isnt concluded it would be very unlikely for your husband to be moved as if they found there to be no evidence of bullying, they would have disrupted him and the old/new departments for no reason.

Also no, an employer doesnt have to do what OHS/GP says if they have a reasonable justification for not doing so (such as yhe above example)

Did OH recommend mediation or has there been any discussion about mediation as its a bit out of order for them to suggest moving departments if that hasnt already been attempted.

And yes, sick absence tends to slow these things down as if someone reports sick companies then are concious of trying not to stress someone out further. Its a difficult balance - some people go off sick and then want the grievance process to be sped up so its all over and done with, others struggle with the amount of contact & meetings that need to go on in order to progress a grievance investigation whilst off with stress as they dont want to think about it...

8dpwoah · 22/03/2021 22:54

Can I ask a question about this scenario, HR folk, as a learning point?
Say the grievance finds no bullying- the complainant still has formally diagnosed mental health issues (I think, from OP). So do the company still have an obligation to do something to support them whether it is fact or 'just' perception that's caused the health issue?
What I'm thinking is if someone lost a finger in a workplace accident, whether the company was found at fault or not they would still have to deal with the implications of the incident with the employee at work.
Sorry to slightly derail your thread OP although it may well be that the answer to my Q helps you start to make plan A and plan B for your situation as well Flowers

AlexaShutUp · 22/03/2021 23:13

Say the grievance finds no bullying- the complainant still has formally diagnosed mental health issues (I think, from OP). So do the company still have an obligation to do something to support them whether it is fact or 'just' perception that's caused the health issue?

If he has an ongoing mental health issue that would meet the definitions of a disability, then they would have a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments. However, that doesn't mean that it would necessarily be deemed reasonable to transfer him or change his line management just because he has asked for that. It would be a business decision based on what the company considers to be workable from their point of view.

GoldenBlue · 23/03/2021 12:23

They still have a responsibility to consider reasonable adjustments but if the condition (mental health, lack of finger etc) means someone is unable to fulfil their duties then they can be dismissed for capability issues.

Regular or extended absence is one of the things that is likely to trigger that.

In most organisations when you get to the end of sick pay then that is an automatic trigger to start dismissal processes.

Moving someone is a fair rare move as the receiving department is unlikely to want to take a staff member with a poor sickness history. This is more likely to be an option if someone has developed mobility issues and now can't to a physical job etc. Where you can see a clear benefit for the role change.

With a bullying allegation I would have expected mediation earlier but if it's not been offered I would ask for it as part of a return to work plan.

8dpwoah · 23/03/2021 12:55

Thanks for taking the time to explain, both. HR fascinates me but I've no working knowledge (and thankfully very little need to ask questions for myself!).

Leftturnstraightahead · 23/03/2021 16:57

In most organisations when you get to the end of sick pay then that is an automatic trigger to start dismissal processes. Do you mean SSP or the company's sick pay arrangements?