Shall I get lawyer involved in this bad redundancy process?

[Emma777222]

Hi mums and dads,

I've been made redundant. I think my department at work genuinely suffers financially so initially I thought that's okay. However, I was the only one made redundant and there was no process. My manager told me over the phone, out of the blue, didn't mention any dates, just said they'd pay me 3 weeks more than legal requirements. I then had to chase our in house lawyer for a week before she sent an email, I started questioning things as I thought that was not really an ok procedure. The reason given was just "your role is redundant". I questioned things. Company seems to think they did everything they're supposed to. 2 weeks after the phone call I got the official letter (my notice period started when I got the phone call).

So maybe my job is actually redundant. Why only my job? That remains unclear. Maybe it's fait, maybe not. I feel like I didn't get enough explanation. Also the process left a bitter taste but I think it's just because they are terribly unorganised. I've been in the company for over 2 years and they've also been good, nothing to complain about. Is it worth getting a lawyer involved in order to get more or I'm a real b*tch if I do that? I'm sooo torn! I just wish they followed a proper process and handled this a bit better

Try speaking to ACAS first to see what they say ?

Is there anyone who does a similar role to you?

I’ve got a couple of questions:

• does anyone else do your role? It’s roles that should be made redundant not the people.
• what do you want to achieve my getting an employment lawyer involved? Keep your job? More redundancy payout?
• have you thought about the cost v benefit of getting an employment lawyer involved? They don’t work for free.

Having been through the process a couple of times (once staying and once leaving) I don’t think it is ever a nice process especially if it is out of the blue. You may be better raising a grievance about the process and taking the ‘enhanced’ payout and moving on.

They need to let you see the full offer in detail, and for you to take the offer to a solicitor for them to validate that it is a fair and reasonable offer. The employer would normally pay solicitor fees to review the offer and rubber stamp it as being fair and reasonable. It's in their best interests to have that confirmation because it removes the chance of any comeback by the redundant employee.

If they are stating they are offering you 3 weeks' more than the statutory requirement then they are covering themselves. You need the solicitor to validate that by providing them with information about your duration of employment, annual salary, any benefits etc. Your solicitor could recommend you go back with a counter-demand if for example you will lose remunerative benefits with no allowance made by your employer's redundancy offer.

End of the day, they want to eliminate your role, your best focus of attention should be on getting the best deal possible, and get your solicitor's fees paid by them.

For 1 redundancy, they don't need to undertake a formal consultation meeting or process, unlike 20+ redundancies where they legally have to do a collective consultation.

www.acas.org.uk/manage-staff-redundancies/redundancy-consultations

If you feel there is any potential of discrimination then do run this by your solicitor - Eg if you have any proof they've selected you instead of a man doing exactly the same job, and they want you gone because they "don't like women because they go off on maternity leave". In that scenario, the only fair way is to run an assessment whereby they objectively score both people doing that same job, so that any choice is based on suitability/experience/qualifications and not any subjective discrimination. Plus if they really want to play things by the book, they ought to show they've offered alternative employment elsewhere in the company if anything suitable is available.

Firstly you need to raise (1) an appeal detailing the lack of redundancy process and consultation (2) at the same time raise a grievance (complaint) you can do this in the same letter. You need to do this straight away without delay. (3) raise early conciliation through ACAS to stop the clock - your employer name (legal entity) is on your payslip use this detail on the form with company registered address. ACAS can help if you get stuck. The grounds for the claim are are (1) unfair dismissal and (2) sex discrimination. Lastly check you have been paid all the money you are owed if you have not been paid all your money this needs to be added in too on the form. Don’t delay submitting to ACAS as it could take two to three weeks for them to contact you and your employer. You could get financial settlement through using acas however if you don’t (4) this is a very simple legal claim - the easiest way to do it is to ask a solicitor to draft the ET1 for you and submit it but remember you need to do it within 3 months minus 1 day from the date you finished. Once in you will be given directions/orders which would be (1) submit a schedule of loss (2) provide disclosure - any relevant documents and a list of documents etc. You would need to attend a telephone preliminary hearing- in this case it’s very simple and you could do it but if you don’t feel your strong enough a barrister would cost £1500 for two hour session. Finally a hearing would be allocated to 3 days (based on my experience) however you could reduce it to a one day hearing. The cost of a barrister is £6,000 preparation fee plus £1000 per day. Most employers settle before the main hearing as it’s expensive and they don’t want bad publicity.
As you are loosing your job put your money to one side and save it. Open a claim for universal credit so you don’t leave yourself vulnerable. You can ask for an advance if you are short of money.

In the current economic environment 3 weeks extra pay is not acceptable especially when there are no jobs out there at the moment. Don’t sign any agreement with them there screwing you over. Go to ACAS

Assuming you are in England, this all sounds very dodgy and your absolute first port of call is ACAS.

Where has the OP given any indication of sex discrimination, @BeautynBeast21?

You're making recommendations, including lodging a claim at Tribunal without even knowing the facts! Getting solicitors and barrister involved with the risk of incurring significant cost that the OP won't recoup plus about a year long process to endure when there isn't grounds to do so, is way too extreme at this stage.

Are you suggesting the OP should take their offer but then slug it out in a tribunal? Or not accept the offer and be forced to slug it out in tribunal and meanwhile have no income? Getting a case heard at the moment is even slower than normal due to Covid19.

Is your role no longer needed? That is basically what redundancy is, you are working on a role no longer needed by company. If no discrimination involved I would accept enhanced redundancy payment and start looking for another job and ask for a good reference.

@caringcarer Not so simple. I work in a sales team and I'm the only sales member being made redundant. My job will be split between the team. So why me and not some colleagues who achieve worse sales results. That was my question to my employer but they didn't offer any explanation.

@NameChange1666

I’ve got a couple of questions:

• does anyone else do your role? It’s roles that should be made redundant not the people.
• what do you want to achieve my getting an employment lawyer involved? Keep your job? More redundancy payout?
• have you thought about the cost v benefit of getting an employment lawyer involved? They don’t work for free.

Having been through the process a couple of times (once staying and once leaving) I don’t think it is ever a nice process especially if it is out of the blue. You may be better raising a grievance about the process and taking the ‘enhanced’ payout and moving on.

@NameChange1666 My role will be split across the team. I found a lawyer happy to do a no win no fee and would like to get a bigger redundancy payout as employer hasn't followed a process and didn't really explain why I was made redundant and not other team members.

I found a lawyer happy to do a no win no fee

A word of caution about No Win No Fee.

Solicitors engaged on a No Win No Fee basis generally do so to mitigate their own risk, because they will look at the case and if it's borderline as to whether you have strong grounds, they are mitigating against them coming away empty handed, not you! A solicitor is interested in billing, first and foremost.

So if you only come away with a small uplift in what your employer is offering, they will take a larger % of that.

If you're fixed on taking it forward with a solicitor make really sure they clarify what their actual % fee will be (which is what No Win No Fee is) and on what basis they will calculate their fee (and don't forget they also charge VAT on top). Then you can calculate how much you've got to pay them and how much you will actually get.

Don't commit to anything until you done these numbers and compared the difference between that gain, and getting a solicitor to review the offer and say if it's fair or not - your employer would pay those fees, including the VAT.

Good luck.

@daisychain01 - the Tribunal could ask for C to give examples of detrimental and/or unfavourable treatment for the sex discrimination element. She would not need to give a schedule here just a couple of examples. Based on the information given this could be detailed easily.
The Op does not need to involve a solicitor to raise an appeal, grievance or ACAS early conciliation. If she goes through ACAS she could potentially reach a healthy settlement without needing to go to court. If this happens her employer would pay £350 towards a solicitor to review any agreement and she could obtain a sum of money and a guaranteed reference for her next job. If she doesn’t then she could still bring a tribunal claim without having to spend a fortune. Lots of people do it. Obviously she does need to start looking for a new job to minimise her future losses.

I have cases I’m working on at tribunals. I have a similar to this one which was lodged in December. The preliminary hearing is in 2 weeks time and the main hearing is at the beginning of September. The employer has already started making offers to settle. This case will be completed in under a year.

In another case which is a very complicated disability/sex discrimination claim and equal
Pay it has been ongoing since 2019. It was delayed by a year as the court closed due to a COVID outbreak. This is due to be heard in May 21.

So yes complex discrimination cases take a long time to be heard but this is a very simple legal case and can be wrapped up quickly in under a year.

Op can start applying for jobs and obtain new employment whilst doing a tribunal claim. Obviously it’s in the respondents interest for the claimant to seek new employment to minimise future losses for both parties

the Tribunal could ask for C to give examples of detrimental and/or unfavourable treatment for the sex discrimination element. She would not need to give a schedule here just a couple of examples. Based on the information given this could be detailed easily. Which bits of information suggest sex discrimination?

If she goes through ACAS she could potentially reach a healthy settlement without needing to go to court

Absolutely no evidence or certainty that the OPs employer will engage with ACAS EC - they don't have to do anything and it's far more likely that they will wait for the OP to make the next move. They will reason that they've offered more than the statutory redundancy amount and the OP can take it or leave it.

I have cases I’m working on at tribunals. I have a similar to this one which was lodged in December. The preliminary hearing is in 2 weeks time and the main hearing is at the beginning of September. The employer has already started making offers to settle.

The employer may have made offers to settle but that's because that case is obviously a strong one and they have taken their own legal advice and decided to avoid taking things all the way. The OP will have to self fund the legal costs, even to get as far as Tribunal, when there is nothing to suggest this is going to give the employer any sleepless nights. They'll just play for time and continue to maintain they've done all they need to as an employer.

As a first step it's always worth checking your insurance policies to see if you have legal expenses cover. It often covers employment disputes.

I am an employment solicitor and I despair at the advice being given here, particularly by those who sound most sure of themselves.

@WhatFreshStartIsThis

I am an employment solicitor and I despair at the advice being given here, particularly by those who sound most sure of themselves.

So are you going to respond more fully on what the OP should do?

I am not obliged to offer advice. She has access to ACAS and a solicitor offering to represent her. These are infinitely better options than posting on an anonymous internet forum for advice.

I agree, @WhatFreshStartIsThis, it's always risky to make assumptions as it's unlikely we'd ever get the complete picture on here. All we can do is give a few pointers and caution against taking action without first running it by a RW professional who is armed with the full facts.

Thank you @daisychain01