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Can a manager refuse annual leave for this reason?

11 replies

Phoenix99 · 25/02/2021 23:24

I started working 16 hours a week in November, it's a great little job that I really enjoy. Long story short, we have a new manager. He started shortly after I did so we've not been there long and we're both new to the roles, he's completely new to managing. I like him and we get along well. We accrue holidays the more hours we do. Me and a colleague, who started at the same time as me, weren't aware of how holidays worked but now we've been made aware we're trying to book AL before the 1st May cut off. After which we lose it with no pay alternative. Our manager appears to be refusing our requests to book AL as everyone else has already booked theirs and he won't allow more than 2 staff off together.

I haven't actually had a response yet but I'm expecting him to refuse my request. I know I'm not protected legally as I haven't been there long but it's a huge national company. Surely he can't refuse?

OP posts:
Ellmau · 26/02/2021 00:35

Can you ask for it to be carried over exceptionally, if there is literally no chance for you to take it before 1 May?

SionnachGlic · 26/02/2021 01:22

He can refuse if other staff will be off & he needs a minimum of 2 & you are one of the only 2 left. Can you find out weeks others will def be in work & book those dates as annual leave instead?

Soulstirring · 26/02/2021 01:36

Have you booked any leave yet? Or is this just the additional earned you’re talking about? If it’s the former then if you knew the holiday year end was April then he can refuse if you expect to take 6 months leave in a short window when others are already off. Don’t get me wrong he should work with you to find a solution but he is also in a difficult situation with ensuring sufficient staffing.

If you’ve a reasonable amount booked but didn’t realise you’d accrued more then I’d certainly be asking to roll it over.

SillyOldMummy · 26/02/2021 04:52

Is he offering ANY dates for you to use the accrued holiday before 1 May? If he does, then unfortunately you really should suck it up and accept these dates, and it's a hard lesson for you to learn for the future that if you accrue extra holiday by working more hours in the run up to the Holiday Year End, you need to make sure that you book the relevant holiday in quickly or get a written agreement in advance to roll the holiday into the next year.

He has inherited this situation as a new manager and probably wasnt made aware of the backlog of holiday not yet booked, perhaps not being fully aware of how holiday accrues when staff work additional hours. So I have some sympathy but ALSO this gives him some flexibility to say "this year, as a one-off while I review how this holiday booking system works (or doesnt work), I will approve staff to roll forward holiday into the next holiday year but ONLY with my explicit written approval, and by next year I will have a better system and policy figured out."

If he is unable to offer you any holiday dates before 1 May, then he should allow you to (/get permission from his own boss) to roll holiday forward as an exception. Or, he should pay you at your normal hourly rate for the holiday not taken (few employers like this option!).

His job as a manager is to ensure that holidays are properly rota'd so that everyone gets to take holiday in a fair way according to company policy. Nearly always that still means some compromise, which typically exists on a goodwill basis within the staff team and with the manager, and with some employees trying to game whatever system the company/manager has come up with!

As a new manager he probably feels a bit unsure about creating a precedent about rolling holiday forwards or paying them out, but if it is possible for someone to work say, an extra two days a week in April to cover sickness or holiday, then likely there wouldn't be time to use up the hours of additional holiday accrued for April, and logically those hours might be rolled forward. Equally, letting staff accrue more and more holiday, knowing there isnt time left in the Staff Holiday Calendar to take that holiday, is at best very poor management, and at worst, outright theft from the employee who has earned that holiday.

Typically with Rolled Forward holiday, it must be taken within a short period of time eg within 2 months after 1 May, and there is usually a maximum amount of holiday that can be rolled forward to avoid people creating a massive balance of holiday not yet taken. Also, holiday is only ever rolled forward with management permission and is never automatic. Where I have worked, permission to roll forward holiday has to be applied for and approved 1 month before the Holiday Year End. (Obviously if you can earn additional holiday in that final month, it would be subject to a special approval if there wasnt time to take it before the Year End).

Hope this helps.

KihoBebiluPute · 26/02/2021 05:27

Employers can legally dictate when you take annual leave for any reason, they have no obligation to make it at a time of your choosing. However they cannot legally stop you from having your legal entitlement to annual leave at all.

I would send a follow-up request email very politely pointing this out. Say that you are willing to take your annual leave on any days prior to the May cutoff date that suits business needs and that you are very willing to be totally flexible, but you are not willing to forego your legal tight to annual leave, so if the requested dates are not convenient please could he nominate alternate dates which you can have instead.

daisychain01 · 26/02/2021 05:28

Ask if you can take your leave during the first week of May, as a compromise.

It seems unbelievable that in the next 2 months, that's about 40 working days M-F, everyone in his team is taking holiday. I'd question that.

flowery · 26/02/2021 07:18

If he refuses your request for specific dates, ask him to tell you which days you should take instead. You’re entitled to your holiday, so get him to tell you when you should take it.

Phoenix99 · 26/02/2021 09:22

Thanks everyone. To answer a few points, I have already said I'm happy to take whatever I can get, I'm completely flexible. It's a company-wide rule that AL is either taken or you lose it, no exceptions. Aside from myself and the other colleague I mentioned, everyone has been there for many years so they booked up their time off well in advance knowing that everyone will try to cram theirs in before the cut off. There is maybe 1 week on the rota where only 1 person is off between now and May - not enough for my own AL, nevermind other staff too. There are plenty of staff who would be happy for the extra hours. It's not an inherited issue as it's his own rule for our store that only 2 staff are allowed off at the same time. Head office have asked him to reduce the amount of staff hours as a cost-cutting exercise so I think this is the reason he's reluctant to allow it.

Thanks for the citizens advice link, I'll have a read of that.

OP posts:
asizmanners · 26/02/2021 12:16

It's a company-wide rule that AL is either taken or you lose it, no exceptions

Fine for the company to dictate when it can be taken, totally illegal to not give you a chance to take it.

They can't just say "no you can't have any AL", then pop up at the annual cut off and say you lose it.

Speaking as a manager, not a lawyer, but have years of people management experience in well-run global orgs.

Your employer is acting in a very risky manner, employment-law wise. I doubt their HR/senior management would confirm this situation in writing because they're opening themselves up to all sorts of legal issues if it was ever challenged.

They're essentially saying they want weeks of unpaid work to be done for free (you have a legal entitlement to the minimum stat leave, and it sounds like they're making it impossible to actually take = unpaid work!).

Phoenix99 · 26/02/2021 22:19

@asizmanners I was thinking along those same lines but I have no management experience so wasn't sure. I tend to think the manager is just unaware that he can't really refuse to allow us to take AL. He wants to do a good job for his manager by cutting staff hours as he was asked. He's fairly young and new to it all so I imagine he's feeling the pressure from all sides. I just hate to be the one to have to push his nose out of joint, so to speak.

OP posts:
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