A/L and bank holidays - new system, is it unfair to part-timers?

[Candlestickchic]

Hi, I wonder if any HR-minded MNers can help me understand whether I’m right in thinking the way my organisation deals with bank hols is unfair to part-timers?

A/L and bank hols are rolled up together and as I work 30hrs a week I receive 0.8 of a full-timer’s allowance (so far so good). We work a 37.5 hour week so I get a total of 210hrs.

Then, at the start of the year, HR apply all the bank hols to the software system, so they get deducted from your total allowance. They deduct all bank holidays, including ones that fall on non-working days. They have a system where 7.5hrs is deducted for full-timers, 6hrs for 0.8 wte, 4.5hrs for 0.6 wte and so on as a sliding scale. (Not sure what I think of this but it’s not my main issue...)

I work Tues-Fri, so to my mind I am losing out. In 21/22 there are 6 Monday bank hols, so I am being deducted 36 hours paid leave allowance for days when I don’t work anyway. On a week with a bank holiday Monday I would still work my full 30 hours, while being deducted 6hours. A colleague who works Mon-Thurs would work 22.5hrs, having 7.5hr off on the Monday (for a 6hr deduction).

Sorry for the essay but this is driving me mad as it feels really unfair. I have queried it with the HR staff member who deals with this, but we seem always to talk at cross purposes. She says the old system (think NHS) was unfair because someone not working Mondays would get an extra 30 hours leave to use at other times. I don’t agree - yes not working Mondays would give you more flexibility as you could use those hours whenever you want, but you would would not be getting more paid leave.

I am starting to think I will just change my days so I am not disadvantaged by the system, but equally it makes me uncomfortable that part-timers across the organisation might be losing out on paid leave unfairly. Have I got this wrong? Happy to be told I have, as at least then I can get this bee out of my bonnet and don’t have to get into a row with HR! Thanks!

I'm an HR person who can actually get her dense head around this I frequently have to explain annual leave and bank hols from the opposite perspective e.g. explaining to Alison who works Mon to Wed why it is actually fair that Barbara who works Wed to Fri gets to choose when more of her days off are, because the key point is that they are both getting the exact same amount of paid time off and choice isn't a bloody legal requirement.

My advice would be to set it out in clear, comparable examples. So Alison gets 100 hours total leave and based on this stupid policy, actually ends up with 89 hours physically off work on her normal working days. Barbara gets 100 hours total and actually ends up with 56 hours physically off work (hours completely made up in this example). Then ask your HR person to clearly explain why she thinks this system is remotely fair given that neither person is actually getting to use their full entitlement and one is clearly worse off than the other.

I'd also give her the example of how it should work, since you do understand that correctly. So, Alison gets 100 hours, uses 40 for bank hols on working days and gets to choose the other 60. Barbara gets 100 total, uses 15 for bank hols and gets to choose the other 85. Yes, clearly this is nicer for Barbara as she gets more choice, but this is much less unfair as at least they're getting the same total paid leave and actually getting to use their full leave.

Sometimes people need to see this laid out super clearly to actually understand it.

They've calculated it assuming everyone works part time but over 5 days per week!!

No help at all I am afraid...
But I work 28 hours and my bank hoildays are included in my annual leave of 156 hrs. Mine are not automatically deducted, I have to book mine off.

Totally wrong. You are losing out on all of those hours. I honestly can’t understand how she thinks this is right.

I don’t see the issue?

For example (used easier numbers for illustration purposes) if you got 10 days AL and there were 5 bank holidays (which fall on a day you don’t work)
If the company said ‘you get 10 days holiday and no-one works bank holidays. You would have 10 days off. A full time person would also get 10 days holiday to do what they want with and also not work bank holidays.
If the company said you get 15days total but we are taking 5 days off for bank holidays. You still get 10 days off.
It’s just that they are giving everyone the full bank holidays days to them just take them off again. Bank holidays aren’t a free for all take when you want day off. What you are suggesting is the company give you 15 days for you to use when you want. Full timers would have to use the 5 days for bank holidays and then only have 10 days to use when they want. So you would have an extra 5 days holiday which isn’t fair.
Bank holidays should be kept completely seperate from annual leave in order to avoid this confusion. They are 2 seperate things unless of course your company is open on bank holidays.

@BrieAndChilli

I don’t see the issue?

For example (used easier numbers for illustration purposes) if you got 10 days AL and there were 5 bank holidays (which fall on a day you don’t work)
If the company said ‘you get 10 days holiday and no-one works bank holidays. You would have 10 days off. A full time person would also get 10 days holiday to do what they want with and also not work bank holidays.
If the company said you get 15days total but we are taking 5 days off for bank holidays. You still get 10 days off.
It’s just that they are giving everyone the full bank holidays days to them just take them off again. Bank holidays aren’t a free for all take when you want day off. What you are suggesting is the company give you 15 days for you to use when you want. Full timers would have to use the 5 days for bank holidays and then only have 10 days to use when they want. So you would have an extra 5 days holiday which isn’t fair.
Bank holidays should be kept completely seperate from annual leave in order to avoid this confusion. They are 2 seperate things unless of course your company is open on bank holidays.

The issues are;

1. equality of treatment of part time employees. 2).statutory holiday rights, which often aren't met fully by the contractual holidays excluding public holidays.

Just because you don't see the problem doesn't mean the employer is complying with the law.

Another holiday literate HR person here! You are totally right and they are operating a bonkers system. Someone working 7.5 hours on a normal money only loses 4.5 hours holiday if they are part-time, why would that be fair.

If you're not getting anywhere with the HR admin then time to escalate I'm afraid.

Thorny issue and one that my multinational employer took a few years to sort out after it was explained to them in words of one syllable.

Rattle all the cages you can OP. It will be much harder to fix if they introduce a wrong system and have the administrative pain of compensating people they have underpaid.

Bank holidays should be kept completely seperate from annual leave in order to avoid this confusion. They are 2 seperate things unless of course your company is open on bank holidays.

@BrieAndChilli - This is the fundamental problem with your post. Bank holidays are NOT separate from annual leave. The confusion comes from people who treat them as if they are, as we see time and again on here.

As far as the law is concerned, it is all annual leave. If you have, say, 25 days annual leave plus bank holidays, that means you actually have 33 days annual leave but your employer dictates when you take 8 of those days.

I found myself in a similar situation regarding Friday Bank Holidays (I work Mon - Thurs). What helped me to clarify it to my line manager was by emphasising the word PAID leave when talking about what I was entitled to.

Yes, a Bank Hol is a day off, but if it falls on my non-working day, then I don't get paid for it, whereas the FT staff do. It was very straightforward in our company, as we only get the statutory minimum of 20 days plus 8 Bank Holidays as paid leave. I pointed out that minimum statutory paid annual leave entitlement for a 4-day a week employee = 16 days + 6.4 of the 8 Bank/Public Holidays, which = 22.4 days.

If a Friday Bank Holiday (which I am not paid for) was taken as part of the 22.4 days total, then I would receive below the legal minimum of PAID leave.