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Original poster

Holiday accrual during shielding/ sickness

32 replies

Gastontehladybird · 02/02/2021 14:40

If anyone has any understanding around this I'd greatly appreciate your insight.

So my mam was off work last January, on sickness, she has a lot going on physically so wasn't well enough to work.

Then covid-19 happened and she was told she was clinically extremely vulnerable and must shield. So she was moved off the sick and onto shielding with her works her dept.

During the summer when restrictions were lifted she went back on to the sick because she still wasn't well and then now back on to shielding.

Her work are saying she has no entitlement to annual leave from last year. Her work annual leave runs Jan to Dec.

My understanding is that she is legally entitled to carry over her leave over the next years.

Now her employer is a national retailer who is supposed to be renowned for treating staff well. So it's not a case of just someone getting it wrong, it's a whole personnel department that are informing my mams supervisor.

She doesn't want to rock the boat and whilst she is being paid while off, it's not a holiday. She can't leave the house and has no enjoyment for a year.

Any ideas?

OP posts:
Original poster
Gastontehladybird · 02/02/2021 14:42

*carry it over the next two years.

I should also add her manager informed her this was guidance from the govt not law.

OP posts:
onedayiwillmissthis · 02/02/2021 14:43

You cannot be seriousConfusedShockHmm

MattyWilbur · 02/02/2021 14:43

What does her contract say?

Is she being paid only SSP or sick pay from work too?

SummerHouse · 02/02/2021 14:47

Interesting one. I think you can accrue leave but not carry it over to another leave year.

Londonnight · 02/02/2021 14:47

I am not sure how it works if she was off sick rather than being furloughed. If furloughed she is allowed to carry the annual leave over two years. Being off sick may be different though.

Does her contract say she is allowed to carry annual leave over? At my work you can't do this, you either use it or lose it.

Original poster
Gastontehladybird · 02/02/2021 14:51

No she's being paid in full. Like I said she doesn't want to rock the boat but I thought this was law and she should be given it back.

OP posts:
PurpleWh1teGreen · 02/02/2021 14:54

At my work any leave that was already booked during furlough was counted as having been taken.

Many places allow you to retake annual leave, as in actual booked holiday and not allowance, if you are sick during the leave.

I'm not sure sick is a reason to carry excess leave forward though.

cissyandbessy · 02/02/2021 14:57

Annual leave can be taken while on furlough. Many employers are asking employees to use it during this time. Otherwise when we can all go back to work everyone will want time off and cause issues for organisations. Some employers are insisting annual leave is used while on furlough and seems fair enough if they are topping up furlough for shielding/homeschooling furloughed staff. Colleagues are covering workload in some cases for these employees. Stacking up leave over next 2 years just delays the issue. Furlough isn't a holiday no, but it also is not work. Plenty of people would be prefer to be on furlough and not working and vice versa - not sure there is a 100% fair way to deal with these things.

ArosGartref · 02/02/2021 14:59

I think, as she's been off work on full pay for a year, I would let this one go.

Soontobe60 · 02/02/2021 15:37

www.acas.org.uk/coronavirus/using-holiday

She needs to send this to her employer.

CRbear · 02/02/2021 15:39

Do you mean she won’t have any 2021 leave (if she’s now back working?) or should she get double the leave in 2021 because she didn’t take any in 2020?

If the former - she should get leave this year
If the latter - absolutely she shouldn’t get more than this years entitlement

Margaritatime · 02/02/2021 15:43

The case law is Stringer vs HMRC. www.personneltoday.com/hr/paid-holiday-ecj-ruling-on-stringer-v-hmrc/

Your Mum would accrue annual leave whilst on sick pay. You would need to check with ACAS whether this applies during shielding.

Comefromaway · 02/02/2021 15:50

If she was on sick then she should accrue annual leave as normal.

If she was furloughed the same applies but there was some confusion at the start of furlough which was clarified later on where it was stated that employers could make employees take annual leave whilst on furlough.

I think most employers chose to furlough shielding employees rather than class it as sick leave.

Dogonahottinroof · 02/02/2021 18:09

Has she provided constant doctors notes?

HamSandwichKiller · 02/02/2021 18:47

Even with doctors notes my employer would pay full pay for 6 months only. SSP after that. It's entirely possible to be dismissed for inability to work, even with doctors notes so I'd not pursue this unless confident your mum won't be dismissed.

LadyCatStark · 02/02/2021 18:52

How much time off does she want??

LIZS · 02/02/2021 18:57

Did she get paid in full instead of moving onto ssp?

AlwaysCheddar · 03/02/2021 07:16

Seriously? She’s getting full pay for a year..., some places would give full pay for just 6 weeks. Let this one go.

ChessieFL · 03/02/2021 07:26

When you say she was ‘on shielding’ do you mean she was furloughed? Was she paid in full during any furlough periods? It may be that her employer treated some of these periods as annual leave - they are allowed to do this but they should have let her know. If they did this, she may well have used all her 2020 allowance.

LApprentiSorcier · 03/02/2021 07:29

Are they saying she will get no leave this year (because she was off last year and didn't accrue it) or are they saying she'll get this year's leave as normal but won't be able to add last year's untaken leave?

Ultimately I recommend she seeks advice from ACAS if she believes she is being treated unfairly.

However, if she's getting this year's holiday allowance as normal after being furloughed/sick all last year, I don't personally think she should try to get last year's leave added on. Last year was rubbish for everyone - few of us were able to do the things we'd normally do during annual leave and we were, like your mum, stuck at home. She's had a whole year's break from work - not her fault, of course - but I'd leave it at that.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 03/02/2021 07:33

So she's expecting double AL this year? If so you can't be serious?

mootymoo · 03/02/2021 07:44

If she received full pay whilst shielding she was very lucky - most got 80%. When she was meant to be back in last summer, did she get paid in full? If so perhaps they used annual leave, shielding wasn't brought back until much later - if she's retail ssp is low and doesn't last that long, I honestly wouldn't bring this one up, especially if she wants to stay employed, she's had been treated unusually well until this point

MichelleScarn · 03/02/2021 07:50

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

So she's expecting double AL this year? If so you can't be serious?
I think so Her work are saying she has no entitlement to annual leave from last year. did they not say that she had to take it during the times she was on furlough? Agree with pp, they have treated her unusually well for a retail company.
muddledmidget · 03/02/2021 07:53

Legally you may be correct that she would have accrued AL during periods of sickness, but without knowing how she was coded while shielding it is difficult to know if she was expected to use any of her allowance during that time ( I know my employer expected at least 2 weeks AL during the initial 12 weeks shielding, bank Holidays were paid as bank Holidays during the shielding). However I probably wouldn't want to rock the boat as large employers are likely to be making cuts this year, and capability grounds for someone who hasn't worked for a whole year and has been paid in full are not going to be difficult to prove

Respectabitch · 03/02/2021 07:55

If she hasn't worked for a year and has been on full pay the entire time, what does she even want more leave for? So she can take a nice paid three-month break in 2022?

Most likely her employer made some of her furlough period annual leave. It's not impossible for mistakes to happen, obviously, but large multinational corporates are generally very clued up on their legal obligations.