Appeal against flexible working request

[talky]

Hi! Does anyone the legal deadlines for the appeal process. I lodged my appeal 100 days ago and not heard anything back from my employer. Is there menat to be a meeting to hear my appeal within 14 days? Should I be there?
It's confusing as you use the organisation@s grievance policy, which a whole other set of time scales and other procedures. Appeal is different to a grievance isn't it? I feel confused at this stage.
Flowery you not still around somewhere are you?

Thanks.

Was you worried this would'nt get noticed?

I think something went horribly wrong here...........

did your button stick

LOL, sticky keyboard I reckon!

Talky you have 14 days to appeal once you have received notification that your request has been refused, your employer then must arrange the appeal meeting within 14 days of receiving your appeal letter, then following the appeal must notify you of the outcome within another 14 days. See here for more info about the process, including timescales.

You don't use the grievance procedure to appeal the decision. You would/could/should bring a grievance separately if you are not satisfied with the final outcome, or not satisfied that the process was followed correctly. I think we talked before about grievance being separate and whether you would want to bring a grievance at the same time or afterwards? I think we came to the conclusion when we were emailing that you were best bringing a grievance once the appeal process had been exhausted, as you could then include everything that had been done wrong.

When notifying you of the original decision about your request, your employer must notify you of your right to appeal the decision and tell you how to do this. At the appeal meeting you must be there and you are entitled to bring a colleague or union rep with you.

Do you know your appeal was received, has it been acknowledged in any way?

Yes. Horrific time tonight with my keys sticking. Can promise was not drunk or anything, altho know it must look mad .
Thanks Flowery.
I was told by an HR advisor that i should use the grievance procedure to appeal. This did confuse me as the timelines in this are not in synch with statutory guidelines.
i sent my appeal to the director of HR as this ia what it tells you in the Trust guidelines. Those guidelines then say an appeal hearing will take place within 28 days using trust grievance procedure.
Now, just to add to this... the work/life balance policy i'm using is dated as for review April 2007 ( i.e it's out of date) but I have been on Mat leave and was not updated. Anyway, the HR advisor seems to have told me a load of rubbish about using grievance procedure. I was no info about appeal in my written refusal letter.
AM i jinxed?

Good grief!

Don't panic. The statutory guidelines obviously overrule an internal procedure so you should look at them not the procedure you have been told to use.

I would sit tight for the minute. If your appeal about your flexible working request fails, you would then bring a grievance and you have PLENTY to put in it, not following several statutory procedures even if we leave aside whether the refusal was justified or not.

Of course you don't want to have to go there, but it's reassuring to know you have so many clear cut breaches to put in, makes it less subjective.

You have the guidelines about what the statutory response to an appeal is. Once it's been more than 14 days without you receiving acknowledgement and invitation to a meeting, I would write to the HR Director again, pointing out that you appealed the decision following the grievance procedure as you were advised to do by [name of crappy HR Advisor], it has been [number] of days since and you have not received an invitation to a meeting which you understand contravenes the statutory procedure for appealing refusal of flexible working requests.

Remember that the 14 days they have to respond is from when they receive the appeal notification, so check when that was - obviously if it was email you will know, if a letter, you may have to allow a few extra days. You will be able to double check if necessary as whoever opens the post there would (should) be stamping it with the date once opened.

You are not jinxed, they are just unbelievably incompetent I'm afraid. I mean really, following the statutory timescales isn't rocket science!

Give them a couple of days after the statutory time limit, then write as I have outlined, with a copy on email as well.

Hi Flowery and maybe anyone else experiencing the same trouble!
Day 14 today sine they recieved my appeal.

Have been invited for a meeting next week.

OK. Except the meeting is with a new member of the HR team who is even more junior than the first HR advisor and the other person in the meeting is my senior manager, who chaired the first meeting to refuse my original request. Doesn't sound like a great way to do an appeal to me? how objective can it be, given that I cited many clear cut breaches of my satatutory rights in the appeal.

Also, they insist that I have to do this as a grievance(stage1). I have written to them to request that it is dealt with as an appeal not a grievance. They have not responded to this and keep insisting it's grievance. |Surely it's for me to deciede if i want to trigger a greivance, not them?

The meeting will be 5 days outside of the statutory 14 day deadline. They have offered no explaination for this. It leaves me wondering if they are acquainted with the legal procedure. I feel I have to tackle this somehow, as the appeal process is turning into a sham.

I am staggered that they are so blatant in not following procedure. desperate for tips!
Am i being unreasonable in my assumptions? How can tackle these points without creating even more hostility?

Sadly I've been informed that the director of HR is also not brill on procedure so I'm getting quite worried.

I'd go to the meeting. The appeal doesn't have to be with someone different particularly, although clearly that would be good practice.

I would ignore the fact that they are saying it must be a grievance. Just do the appeal ignore the internal grievance policy and make notes of exactly what happens and where they are not following the statutory flexible working request/appeal procedures.

Go to the meeting, then if/when your appeal is refused, initiate a grievance yourself, with a section about why the decision was unreasonable, and a (bigger) section about all the procedural/legal errors there have been, you have plenty of examples of this. I think if/when you get to this stage it would be fine to insist the grievance is heard by someone more senior, you would be bringing the grievance against all involved in this so it would not be appropriate for any of them to hear it.

We'll deal with that when it comes to it though, at present go to the meeting and see how that goes, keep loads of notes and see how it goes.

Hi again Flowery, thanks for the advice. I have a dilema.

Should I point out that they have procedural errors in the handling of my appeal? I.e, no info about appeal given in written refusal, later when i requested this info I was given incorrect advice by HR,meeting held 5 days outside of 14 day legal deadline with no explaination.

This is on top of several other mistakes earlier on in the process.

But does it help me to point these out and seek an expaination before the meeting?

Part of me thinks I should just focus on my request and leave their procedural mistakes to one side. on the other hand, I'm shocked at the mistakes and can only think that they don't know the law. So it would help me to point it out.

They insisted that i submit my appeal as a grievance, despite me saying i prefered not to go that route at this stage. If it is a grievance, the deadlines are even tighter; acknowledgement in 2 days (they did on day 14), meeting on day5 (they propposed day20). Why on earth? Should i point this out Too?
Such a mess. I've tried really hard but it is unnerving. I have no confidence in my organisation.
yikes.

I think just go to the meeting, if they do (by some miracle) agree your request, you can then choose whether to just go with it or to make an issue of the procedural problems.

If they don't, you can put all the procedural problems and mistakes, both withn regard to the statutory flexible working procedure and with regard to their own internal grievance policy which they insisted you use, in a separate grievance afterwards together with the information about why the request should have been agreed in the first place. Plus you never know, there still might be more procedural problems, and pointing these out in a big list in a grievance will have more impact and will ensure they get properly addressed/answered if it gets to it.

Thanks for that. Will follow your advice on that. Are there any tips for how to be in an appeal meeting of this sort?

Calm
Business like
Polite
Rational
Well-prepared

Bring copies of all relevant internal policies/previous correspondence/documentation/statutory procedures, in the right order so you can easily refer to them, and know exactly what was sent by whom and when.

Bring at least one other set of copies of everything to give to someone else if necessary, all ordered and labelled.

Make sure you know exactly what you are going to say, have any points/facts and figures/argument written out clearly for yourself and in a format/order that means you will find everything easily and will not fumble around with papers. A folder with dividers or something would be ideal.

This all sounds like a lot of work I know, but you will feel more confident and will knock their socks off with your preparedness and business-like manner.

thanks. Fab advice. Have taken it onboard.Intend to come out of this atleast looking professional.

Do I expect them to do the talking mainly? as mine has been presented in writing already? is this a responce from them really? or do I expect to present my case again? The whole shebang is long.

Who should take the minutes? I suppose it looks bad if i ask to dictaphone the meeting for my record, looks paranoid?

Don't have long, need a new outfit too. ceebees will be on and prayer that baby takes a decent nap.

Be prepared to state your case again.

There should be someone there for note-taking purposes, but take your own anyway so you can check the 'official' ones.

I'm assuming you are taking a colleague or union rep with you? Get them to take notes. Don't worry about seeming paranoid if you want to use a dictaphone, this would enable you to concentrate and focus on the meeting without having to worry about notes.

Thanks again. Am getting my stuff in good order.