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Original poster

Training at a US Law Firm in London

20 replies

sregnif · 19/01/2021 10:46

Hi,

Our dd is very ambitious and driven. She's just accepted a job to train as a lawyer at a very high end US law firm in the city of London. Now she obviously knows the hours are going to be horrendous, but has chosen a US firm that has a slightly better rep than similar firms for work/life.

Has anyone worked/trained in this field? Is it really hellish? Should she jump ship now Shock
What kind of lifestyle can she reasonably expect to have outside of the long work hours? Where do lawyers at US law firms live in London etc

OP posts:
ScottishDiblet · 19/01/2021 10:49

Hello! Congrats to your DD. I did it. It was not for me but it was an excellent training contract and I left 2 years after qualifying and now have a job with much more regular hours. Most trainees live with friends in flat or house shares around London. Happy to answer questions via PM. Best wishes.

DappledOliveGroves · 19/01/2021 12:10

I trained at a Magic Circle firm. Probably similar hours but US firms tend to me slightly on the smaller side so she should hopefully get good experience and exposure to interesting work.

It can be brutal. I think the worst week I had was 4 all-nighters in a week. It was pretty exhausting but then, you go into it with your eyes open.

Assuming your daughter is keen and can cope with little sleep when needed, then she should be fine.

Original poster
sregnif · 19/01/2021 19:10

Thank you for the replies. She has already said that she's doing this to get her training paid for and then she will see how she feels.

OP posts:
DailyCandy · 19/01/2021 21:35

At least she knows what she wants out of it. Firms see new trainees as completely expendable, because they are. The attrition rates are sky high for a reason. It’s not just the hours, it’s the ferocious personalities and egos. I would never encourage my child to work for a US law firm.

Justfivemoreminutesplease · 19/01/2021 21:46

Yes, most people get used to the salary though, so tend to say that they’ll give it a year or two, but never really leave after then. Unless of course they have to leave due to health issues or just aren’t kept on.

American law firms in London do have a bad reputation. Ferociously competitive. Interesting work attitudes towards junior staff. If she really doesn’t mind being told at short notice that she has to work and so must cancel her annual holiday starting in a day or two or a trip home to celebrate granny’s big birthday, then great! I know many who wouldn’t.

Whoateallthechocolate · 19/01/2021 22:11

I used to be a supervisor at a US firm (so had a trainee share my office and I was their immediate line manager) and had done the same at the UK firm I was at. I would always sit my trainees down at the beginning of the seat and find out what their priorities were ... 5-a-side football on a Tuesday, being a bridesmaid on a particular weekend, a family celebration ... and then I'd do my best to make sure they could attend those. Otherwise, they could be working pretty much 24/7 and some days they would come in (as would I) fully expecting to leave at 6pm and be there until after midnight. Everyone has a towel & toiletries in the office (most firms have showers and, if not, you could go to the gym ) as well as a change of work clothes, make up etc.
But trainees at US firms are on six figures so they need to do the hours to charge the clients.

TheWayOfTheWorld · 19/01/2021 22:41

Which one is it? I've been a partner at 2 of them) and currently plotting an escape route despite being at one of the more "cuddlier" ones - which is all bollocks by the way.

She sounds switched on but the hours will be horrendous and there will be a lot of lip service to diversity, work/life balance etc but frankly these places are run by sociopaths and the bottom line is the bottom line (although there are some normal people, honest!).

TheWayOfTheWorld · 19/01/2021 22:50

Having said that, she will probably get excellent training and a lot of opportunities will open up - whether that is to move to another firm, go in-house or do something different altogether.

Donotgogentle · 19/01/2021 22:57

You’re not selling it there TheWay Grin

She doesn’t have to stay at the end of the training contract if it doesn’t suit her so it sounds like a fantastic opportunity.

Whoateallthechocolate · 20/01/2021 21:27

She doesn't have to stay at the end of her TC but I was always wary of hiring someone at that point as you were never certain if they were genuinely choosing to leave or being pushed. This suspicion can follow you too. I was involved in interviewing someone 10yr PQE the other day and something which immediately jumped out was that they had moved on qualification and it didn't seem obvious why. Had they just not been good enough for their Magic Circle firm to keep then on? It can be seen differently if they want to qualify into a niche area or if they move up a tier of firm/across to US and it might be different if someone was looking to move in house or to a bank. If you're at a a US firm and qualify into a mainstream area like corporate or finance, I would recommend waiting until at least 1yrPQE ... although you're then used to an even higher salary and bonus which makes the change harder. She might think now that she'll do it for two years and save, save, save and then do something completely different but it is remarkably easy to spend money when everyone around you is.

ImsorryWilson · 23/01/2021 11:07

I worked similar hours in a regional for far less money - but walked to work.......

It’s the commute and the sociopaths that are the problem OP, the hours are very long but it’s quite exciting and you’re young......

My advice to your child is to put all her energy into finding the good training partners and developing a passion for whatever kind of work they do.

ImsorryWilson · 23/01/2021 11:09

Wayoftheworld I’ve been in a sociopath-free firm since April 2016. It’s everything. Get out!

ImsorryWilson · 23/01/2021 11:12

.... just agreeing more with Way

There is an inverse relationship between talk of balance/diversity etc etc and actual balance/diversity.

You’re better off being somewhere where they are truthful about this and don’t sugar coat. It’s easier to cope with.

NotCornflakes · 23/01/2021 11:19

I'm not a lawyer, but just wanted to share a link to this old thread that you/ your daughter might find interesting: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_classics/1811553-City-lawyers-I-am-about-to-become-one-of-you-Please-advise-me

I read it at the time completely agog, it's not a job I could do in a million years!

MyAnacondaMight · 23/01/2021 11:20

It’s a pretty terrible way to spend your 20s, but difficult to walk away from the money. If you’re looking for reassurance, I’m afraid you’re unlikely to get it.

Living around Spitalfields/Shoreditch is always popular with trainees, for good reason. The trip home will invariably be in a taxi, but nice to be able to walk to work to get 15 minutes of daylight.

Anniissa · 23/01/2021 11:29

The US firms pay a very high salary but they will certainly expect to wring every penny’s worth out of you for that. Training at any of the top UK firms means long hours but friends at the US firms were beasted far worse than any of us and basically had no social life as they were very rarely out of the office. Training contracts at the top end can be brutal - ultra competitive, incredibly long hours, some firms have a very bullying atmosphere - but this seems to be multiplied at the US firms (even the supposedly ‘cuddlier’ ones). Some people thrive in the fast paced competitive environment but a lot burn out. It can be an incredibly rewarding (and incredibly well paid) career but it is very hard work getting there and it doesn’t suit everyone. Going in with your eyes open to expectations will help.

Insomniacexpress · 23/01/2021 11:32

It is hellish, but it’s also only 2 years and you don’t have to stay after if you don’t like the culture. If it’s bad, she could try to get on a client secondment for one of her seats for a ‘break’. She will find it easier to get a role she wants after as well. It’s possible to almost live in firms like that during a TC -free meals after 7, new shirt if you sleep under your desk, drinks trolley...

TheWayOfTheWorld · 23/01/2021 14:24

@ImsorryWilson

Wayoftheworld I’ve been in a sociopath-free firm since April 2016. It’s everything. Get out!
I am! Feeling scared but liberated Grin
TheWayOfTheWorld · 23/01/2021 14:27

@ImsorryWilson

.... just agreeing more with Way

There is an inverse relationship between talk of balance/diversity etc etc and actual balance/diversity.

You’re better off being somewhere where they are truthful about this and don’t sugar coat. It’s easier to cope with.

Yes, I find this cognitive dissonance/hypocrisy so hard to bear. At least with some firms - eg K&E - they are pretty clear about who they are. There are others who pay less because they "offer" D&I and prattle on about work/life balance but when it comes to the bottom line the expectations and demands are the same.
cahoots7 · 26/01/2021 01:08

Having worked at top US firms and English firms, I think the distinction is far less than people think. Both require long hours and have very ambitious people running them. In my experience the key is to find a good department and at least one partner mentor. My best experience was working at a US firm with a terrible reputation but because I had a partner mentor and the partners in my department generally cared about associate training and development I got far more out of it than the supposedly nicer English firms I worked for.

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