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NHS "acting up" help? Pay??

18 replies

hillarypcof · 14/01/2021 20:16

Hi all,

Will keep this as brief as possible.

I am currently NHS Band 4. There Band 7 post in our team has been vacant for almost a year and my manager has trained me in under his wing to undertake this Band 7 work. I have been doing this for the best part of 6 months, along with the usual duties from my Band 4 role.

The Band 7 vacancy is being re-put out there for advert soon and I have been actively discouraged from applying for it as "on paper you do not have the skills".
AIBU to feel put out by this? They are happy for me to do the job for free, but don't want to pay me for it???

I love taking on new responsibilities within a team and developing my skills, but to be trained up to do a Band 7 job (for free) and directly told not to apply for the vacancy when it comes out feels like a real kick in the teeth.

Tia x

OP posts:
Hello1290 · 15/01/2021 10:39

Are you fully trained to do all of the Band 7 role or just some aspects of it as you mention you are still doing your Band 4 role as well. Do you think they have someone else in mind for the job ?

I would feel a bit put out as well. Can you look at doing a sideway/upward move to another department ?

maxelly · 15/01/2021 10:41

Hello, sorry you haven't had many replies, you could try posting in employment matters as I know there are many NHS HR bods that hang out there?

What I would say is that being promoted by a jump of 3 bands really is quite unusual, in my NHS career I've seen on a handful of occasions someone making a 2 band jump (e.g. a Band 3 to 5) but that would usually be where there's a clear rationale e.g. they've been working as an unqualified assistant and have just got their degree/clinical qualification so can start work as a HCP, or I've seen someone be promoted 2 or 3 times in fairly rapid succession (over the course of a few years) but I don't think I've ever seen a 3 band jump in one go. So in one sense I would say you are being a bit U in having this expectation BUT I fully understand that you've been doing a lot of the work of this Band 7 role on a voluntary basis on the understanding this would then be repaid by some investment/recognition in you further down the line and now this hasn't materialized which must be a real kick in the teeth for you, totally not U there.

I am reading between the lines here so apologies if I've got this completely wrong, but in order for a non clinical job to reach Band 7 in the NHS job evaluation scheme it has to have quite significant managerial responsibilities, things like line managing others, being responsible for a budget, doing long term strategic planning for the department, as well as doing more complicated and difficult work than at the lower levels and being more independent and less supervised. In line with this the expectation is that the person has good academic qualifications up to masters degree level and/or that they have very significant on the job experience and training to enable them to do that job - so I can see why they may be saying that 'on paper' you aren't qualified for the job.

Now it may or may not be that that is genuinely still a requirement for the particular job in your department, quite often managers out of lack of time or laziness don't want to really think about what they now need and rewrite/redesign the job, and just use the old job description sometimes years old, which may not reflect the now reality of the situation. It may also be that from your perspective you've been covering the Band 7's work but actually your manager has been covering things like the staff management, senior level meetings etc which they would normally get the Band 7 as their deputy to do, so feels as though you aren't truly doing the full role and hence why they still want to bring someone else in. I doubt he's seeing this from your point of view, he is probably just thinking about how much easier his life would be if he had both you now that you have been trained up and are more experienced, plus another senior/experienced person to do all the work - he's basically thinking he can have his cake and eat it Grin .

What I would do is try and approach your manager a bit strategically on this and suggest some ways in which things can be organised so as to benefit both you and him and maybe even save some money for the department which can then be spent in other ways. So if for instance at the moment the structure is that you have your manager at (I'm guessing) 8A or B, the Band 7 job and then you as a Band 4, he could change the structure to have him at 8A, a Band 5 or 6 deputy's job which you could apply for and then a Band 3 which you would supervise. He would still have to do a lot of the higher level management work in this scenario, but if you were freed up from all the low level admin work by having a band 3 there, you could take a lot off his hands to help him (I'm sure you can articulate this) and there would still be a budget surplus that could go into training or new kit or other budget areas to make the department run more smoothly and effectively. Basically sell the benefits to him as in the short term doing this will be a PITA for him to sort out in terms of paperwork. You can also subtly imply that you are looking to develop your career so if there aren't opportunities for you in the department you will be looking to move on and so he'll be left without any trained experienced staff which will also be a problem for him...

Good luck!

TangoWhiskyAlphaTango · 15/01/2021 10:42

It seems like a huge leap from a band 4 to a band 7, are they ultimately looking for somebody with more experience? What about formal qualifications? I agree with you though I would be put out too, why havent they been paying you an acting band 7?

chocolateorangeinhaler · 15/01/2021 10:48

I very much doubt you are fully trained to do the band seven role.
A band seven usually requires a degree qualification and/or five years relevant experience.
By all means document what you have done with an interest in going on apprenticeship levy training to get the qualifications but your expectations that's you can jump from a four to a seven with six months of being shown something are unrealistic.
Climb the ladder the correct way and you will get there, try and barge your way up the ladder and you'll find every door slammed in your face.

hillarypcof · 16/01/2021 10:26

Thank you for all of your replies, I should have mentioned in my OP that I am educated to degree level and have a Masters Degree too, along with 4 years experience in my current role in the NHS - so I know that I am very very qualified, it all just feels like they are happy for me to do the acting up for nothing but have somebody specific in mind for the job when it comes to recruitment!

OP posts:
panachronic · 16/01/2021 20:13

If your managers are actively discouraging you from applying then that to me means they have someone (anyone) else in mind. I have seen this happen a lot in my time and at the very least you should have been paid at a Band 5 for all the extra work you have been doing. I would say start looking for a new role but apply for the job regardless, you will have gained enough experience to be able to tailor your personal statement to match the role that you have been covering and I would imagine you have gained a lot of insight into the 'managerial aspects' of the role to be able to have a good go at answering questions during any interview. You have nothing to lose but a lot to gain from the interview experience. Good luck.

GingerNorthernLass · 16/01/2021 21:57

If you are being actively discouraged from applying then I would look for another route.

Use the Band 4 and new acting up experience to apply for Band 5 or 6 jobs.

NHS thinking with regards to recruitment is very fixed and they do seem to like you to work up the bands and work within your remit. It's very outdated.

Elieza · 16/01/2021 22:11

Agree with maxelly.

3rdNamechange · 16/01/2021 22:16

Well I'd immediately stop doing the band 7 aspect of the role.

malificent7 · 21/01/2021 08:36

I eould use your ecperience to move up the ladder elsewhere...will look great on your cv/ at interview. It is as kick in the teeth
...hence elsewhere.

hillarypcof · 21/01/2021 15:09

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate your support.
Yes, I think I need to use these experiences to progress up the ladder elsewhere.

I have an interview tomorrow for a lateral move into another NHS organisation, into a Band 5 post, so fingers crossed! 🤞🏻

OP posts:
GingerNorthernLass · 21/01/2021 17:39

That's great news. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

The good thing is, if you get this job, you're not going to have to train the Band 7 (which is probably what your manager is hoping you will do).

hillarypcof · 22/01/2021 19:02

I got the job!!!! 😃😃😃😃

OP posts:
Crocky · 22/01/2021 19:04

Congratulations 😀

Elieza · 22/01/2021 19:56

Congrats! I take it there is no probationary period in it?

GingerNorthernLass · 22/01/2021 20:14

Hooray!

panachronic · 24/01/2021 19:34

Congratulations!

m0therofdragons · 24/01/2021 19:42

Congratulations! I went from a 4 to a 5 (deputising for the 7) then after 4 years I went to band 7 deputising for the director. I’m ready to step up further as usually most hospitals have a band 7 manager, head of department band 8a or b then director but we’re a small team so no head of department opportunities. At my last appraisal I asked what I needed to develop to get to the next level and director said I’m already doing that role but can’t reband. So frustrating but I’ll hold on until dc are at secondary and reasses (September 2022).

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