Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

Disciplinary for stressed member of staff

39 replies

girlcrushonvillanelle · 09/01/2021 20:06

I have a member of staff who struggles with anxiety and stress. Before Covid she was generally fine, However this past 12 months have meant that her quality of work has taken a big nose dive.

The type of work we do needs full focus and attention, but she now struggles this this a lot and so is making numerous mistakes.

These mistakes are close to costing us our business.

I am planning to give a last warning before disciplinary action commences.

Does anyone know of any mental health support or mindfulness training that is any good so that I can offer her support?

OP posts:
user1471457751 · 11/01/2021 09:10

Honestly, I think if you are close to losing your business because of her mistakes then you need to start disciplinary action now. In fact, given you seem to have warned her previously, I think you need to start dismissing her on capability grounds.

Its horrible that she is suffering so badly but you cannot let her destroy your business.

Orf1abc · 11/01/2021 09:22

Contact Mind, in some areas they offer employment support services. What reasonable adjustments have you considered for your employee?

Lemonpiano · 11/01/2021 09:24

Occupational health assessment?
Have you determined whether she is disabled for EA purposes and made reasonable adjustments?
Can she be redeployed?

Remploy have a MH Access to Work support scheme.

HermioneWeasley · 11/01/2021 12:10

Does she have a diagnosis and receive treatment? If so it’s likely to be a disability under the equality act, and you’ll have to consider what reasonable adjustments you can make. Give it sounds like you’re a small business, you wouldn’t be expected to do anything too onerous. Would it be feasible to slightly drop her workload or give her longer to complete it (for example)?

But ultimately you are not required to employ someone who cannot d9 the job.

Original poster
girlcrushonvillanelle · 11/01/2021 19:51

She is not receiving any treatment and is not incapacitated by it. She just gets stressed and anxious as do we all, but seems to be struggling to cope a bit less than usual at the moment.

I have helped her by reducing her hours (at her request) using flexi furlough wherever the diary allows.

She can't be redeployed as there is only 1 job. We are a small team.

Thanks for the info, I will go and take a look.

OP posts:
Love2cycle · 11/01/2021 19:56

I'm absolutly sure this is not the case as you'd have mentioned it, but given the other threads on here I really feel I should ask. Is she affected by any childcare issues due to schools being closed?
As I said, I'm sure you would have said, but I can't let this go unnoticed if it is the case.

Original poster
girlcrushonvillanelle · 11/01/2021 20:01

@Love2cycle - she is to a degree, she has 2 children at home who need home schooling. Her husband works from home and she only works 4 short days a week. I also give her at least one extra day off at the moment to help with flexi furlough.

But if I give her any more time off I have to turn work away, if I turn work away we will have none to go back to. And then she really will lose her job, as will I and the others I employ.

I know its hard for everyone, but I am putting extra pressure on my family and husband at the moment to help her out.

OP posts:
Mackerelpizza · 11/01/2021 20:19

Your opinion of whether she is "incapacitated" is not relevant as to whether the law considers her to have a disability and therefore be afforded the protections of the Equality Act.

I think you need to take proper advice before you find yourself dealing with a case of unlawful discrimination.

Original poster
girlcrushonvillanelle · 11/01/2021 20:20

Just to add that we are small team of 4, all of which have primary school aged children at home currently.

We are in the nature of work that if we turn work away our clients will go else where. We are also in the nature of work that we have limited clients. If we lose just one of our big clients I have to lay off staff.

I am struggling here to keep us all afloat, I am working full time to cover all I can (and neglecting my own child care duties) and only giving my staff what I can't personally do. The rest of the time they are on furlough.

OP posts:
Original poster
girlcrushonvillanelle · 11/01/2021 20:24

@Mackerelpizza all I meant was that she is not receiving any medical assistance (know that for a fact) and that she does not suffer with depression or other mental health issues.

OP posts:
OnwardsEverStridingOnwards · 25/01/2021 01:42

@girlcrushonvillanelle if she's been suffering with stress and anxiety for twelve months or more, she would be classed as a disabled person under The Equality Act.

Have you referred her to Occupational Health?

VienneseWhirligig · 25/01/2021 02:18

Surely it's not disciplinary (she hasn't done anything wrong, there is no misconduct) but she is unwell which has led to impaired performance therefore capability? It may sound like semantics but these things are important. Disciplining someone for being unwell is not a good look. Going down a performance process because of underperformance is still rubbish when the person cannot help it because of their illness, but you need to put in place a structured plan showing where she can improve, what help you are willing to give her (reasonable adjustments, adjusted workload, mentor, counselling etc) to give her a fighting chance of improvement.

It is tricky, but if she had a physical illness that reduced her performance, would you still be considering disciplinary action? If not, why do it for a mental illness? There is no misconduct in being unwell. It's not a failure or a crime.

JustWatchMe · 25/01/2021 08:51

There is no misconduct in being unwell. It's not a failure or a crime.

You can still dismiss someone on capability grounds even if they have a disability or are unwell - you need to look to make reasonable adjustments but what is reasonable will depend on the business and the job.

VienneseWhirligig · 25/01/2021 09:19

This the point I was making - the language used in the OP about disciplinary is incorrect. But also, dismissing for capability is very draconian when you know there is a mental health problem, unless all routes to support the individual to manage have been exhausted and the business cannot withstand any more leeway/support.

MrsMercedes · 25/01/2021 09:25

It sounds like the business can not sustain this

And Ip sounds reasonable and caring

I’d have a good chat with her. She must know she’s not performing well enough.

Sometimes nothing more can be done and she will need to move on.... that or take the business and everyone else down with her

MrsMercedes · 25/01/2021 09:26

*op

Backbee · 25/01/2021 09:34

Tricky one, it sounds like you are supporting as a business where you can ie the flexi etc, but is she is not capable of doing the job and it's affecting your business, then it's not sustainable. If she hasn't sought support or treatment she won't be able to claim disability discrimination, rather than disciplinary though, are there any other HR routes that can explore reasonable adjustments? Usually it would be OCC health in larger organisations but not sure what you have access to.

GoodGirlsRUs · 25/01/2021 22:13

I've probably made her anxiety issues sound worse than they are. She is a perfectly well functioning person but is worried about Covid etc which means she finds it hard to concentrate on her work and has made many mistakes.

This is coming from someone who has has had counselling for anxiety and panic attacks in the past and has suffered with them for years but have coping mechanisms.

Her issues are low level (without meaning to dismiss them).

MissKhan1990 · 26/01/2021 15:41

She needs a risk assessment. If she suffers with anxiety and stress, she could be on medication and not disclosed it

Oxfordblue · 28/01/2021 14:36

How long have you employed her? If it's less than 2 years & no protected characteristics she has left claims.

However, you need to follow a fair process. I assume no hr or hr policies, in which case refer to ACAS.

  1. would be to have a meeting with her so she clearly understand what's expected of her.
  2. you need to find out any underlying issues - if her anxiety is so bad, has she been to her gp? Alarm bells if it's impacting her significantly.
  3. set expectations with her.
  4. explain the impact of her mistakes on the business
  5. set out what support she needs to have to improve & implications of not improving.
daisychain01 · 30/01/2021 09:45

she does not suffer with depression or other mental health issues

You've described her as suffering from anxiety. You do realise anxiety is a form of depression. You are not qualified to say that she has or has not got "other mental health issues".

Does anyone know of any mental health support or mindfulness training that is any good so that I can offer her support?

I appreciate you are a small business, but it's completely inappropriate to ask strangers on the internet for advice about random Mental Health training for your employee which does not form part of her formal diagnosis and treatment. It would be better to support her with specific training to do the tasks you're expecting her to do and find out if there are aspects of the tasks she needs help with. Leave the other stuff to trained professionals.

daisychain01 · 30/01/2021 09:47

ie - encourage her to talk again with her GP so they can recommend the MH training and guidance

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 30/01/2021 09:50

She sounds like she maybe needs to be off sick.

Low level, high level, medicated or not, she has a disability. Anxiety is a crippling disability.

Be careful about her rights. You may be in hot water without clear evidence of suitable adjustments, occupational health involvement and assessment, warning processes.

You can dismiss people for being sick, but it takes a long time. How bad are her mistakes?

Howshouldibehave · 30/01/2021 09:51

@GoodGirlsRUs

I've probably made her anxiety issues sound worse than they are. She is a perfectly well functioning person but is worried about Covid etc which means she finds it hard to concentrate on her work and has made many mistakes.

This is coming from someone who has has had counselling for anxiety and panic attacks in the past and has suffered with them for years but have coping mechanisms.

Her issues are low level (without meaning to dismiss them).

Are you the OP as well?

I would be taking some employment law advice here, I think-just to make sure you follow all processes correctly.

daisychain01 · 30/01/2021 09:52

Sorry I noticed she hasn't received a proper diagnosis. In that case, for her sake, I would suggest to her that a consultation with her GP would be helpful for her, to discuss anxiety and receive some recommendations from her GP. They are always the starting point for sign posting to professional organisations who can help with techniques to help her self- manage her symptoms.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.