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Original poster

Being forced to take all annual leave before ML starts

27 replies

Est103 · 20/11/2020 14:23

Hi,

Looking for advice on this situation...I'm due in mid Feb and taking my ML from early Feb. I have been furloughed since March this year so have built up 16 days annual leave, plus I will get 20 days annual leave during 2021.

My employer has send through a maternity policy which was updated Nov 2020 (after I told them I was pregnant), and it states:

"We request that all accrued holidays or any holidays that will accrue during your maternity leave are taken prior to maternity leave starting, and these are requested in the usual way."

This makes absolutely no sense to me, why would I take 36 days annual leave before my ML, when I could take it after and enjoy longer with the baby? Can they legally make me take all my leave in this way? I won't even have accrued most of it for 2021 if I go on ML in Feb! What if I then leave and have to pay it back?

They have separately confirmed with the whole company that any leave accrued while on furlough can be carried over for the next 2 years, so it also seems like discrimination that I'm being asked to take my leave before Feb.

Any advice welcome, I really don't want to start using leave which could be better spent after my SMP ends. Plus I'm likely to be furloughed until my ML starts, so will be 'giving' up the £2,500 pay for December and January in place of an annual leave payment.

Thank you in advance :)

OP posts:
RainbowMum11 · 21/11/2020 03:06

Basically, yes they can determine that you use our accrued leave before your mat leave starts as long as they give the required notice.
If you are furloughed and required to take some of your leave as part of that, as long as you are paid at 100% of you salary and again, have been given the required notice to take the leave, then yes it's absolutely fine and legal.

flashbac · 21/11/2020 03:42

It's unusual to request an employee to take leave before it has been accrued. Could you go back and clarify? Especially if those on furlough have an extended carry over period. When are you due to return from maternity leave?

Sunflowergirl1 · 21/11/2020 06:59

Strange as if you decided not to return, you would then owe a load of money. Employers can dictate when you take annual leave but I'm not sure they can when you have not accrued an entitlement to it

Mumdiva99 · 21/11/2020 07:01

I had to do this. So I ended up having to stop work earlier than planned. But it's normal.

slipperywhensparticus · 21/11/2020 07:04

I had to take all that was accrued but no more than that

swapsicles · 21/11/2020 07:12

From your planned ML start date use holiday instead for the first few weeks and start ML later.

Hercwasonaroll · 21/11/2020 07:19

Just count back holiday days from your due date, start mat leave on your due date and take the rest as holiday. If you give birth early it's their mess to sort out.

Bakeachocolatecaketoday · 21/11/2020 07:25

@swapsicles

From your planned ML start date use holiday instead for the first few weeks and start ML later.
Maternity leave automatically starts on the date you give birth.

I think you need to ask a difficult question of HR;

I am unsure how much maternity leave I am going to take, it can be as little as 6 weeks and as much as 12 months. How can I use my leave prior?, if, to use an extreme example I plan for 12 months but I come back after 6 weeks I won't have any leave for the rest of the year"

Hardbackwriter · 21/11/2020 07:32

My experience is that being asked to take all leave you currently have accrued before mat leave isn't unusual and I don't think it's unreasonable, but asking you to take all the leave you will accrue is and I would challenge it.

I can sort of see why they want to push you to take leave before you go on mat leave - I assume that if you're on furlough you will start mat leave as late as you can, and you're going to come back with a huge amount of leave if you don't use any beforehand. But I don't think asking you to use all of 2021's leave is a reasonable solution.

DennisTMenace · 21/11/2020 07:55

Fine to get you to take accrued leave. Remind your work that legally you only have to take two weeks maternity leave and they are not allowed to ask when you plan to return, so how can they calcualte how much leave you will acrue and have to take before leave?

I do think you are being rather selfish about wanting to carry over already acrued holiday and stay in furlough though. It all adds to national debt, so those of us working are actually the ones paying for you to not work. With the way the national debt is going, your unborn child will still be paying the bill when they start working too.

Otocinclus · 21/11/2020 08:08

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for privacy reasons.

starfishmummy · 21/11/2020 08:11

Speaking from experience, take it! I didn't - but only had a few days left, not 16. When I returned my employer denied all knowledge, and my official leave records had gone to head office "for storage" and no one seemed in a hurry to get them back!! I did have a photocopy but it took union intervention to get them to accept it.

IntoP20 · 21/11/2020 08:18

I think you’re being somewhat selfish not taking your accrued a/l to stay furloughed. You’re contributing to our huge national debt and putting additional strain on your employer. However, your employer is unfair to ask you to take a/l you haven’t yet accrued, they can’t do that

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 21/11/2020 08:22

It's surely wrong as when you go on Mat Leave you can take up to a year. Or you can take as little as 2 weeks. It's not the employers decision how long you take off. Them forcing you to use a years worth of leave before you start ML is them working on the assumption you are taking a full year off. You may not!

FluffMagnet · 21/11/2020 08:41

My work is similar and I had mine early March, starting May Leave just at end of Feb. What I arranged with them is to put all my accrued leave on the end of my leave. I didn't take the full year off, obviously, so that is not possible if that is your plan, but instead I "came back to work end of November and then was on holiday until the beginning of January. Meant I was off on full pay over Christmas and avoided the unpaid bit of Mat Leave.

ivfbeenbusy · 21/11/2020 08:44

Yes they can. The government said furloughed staff COULD carry over annual leave not that they HAD to allow that hence why furloughed workers were told to take holiday during furlough

They only have to let you carry over your 16 days if you were already on ML - which you are not

LazyLucille · 21/11/2020 08:47

I would use the leave I had already accrued just before my due date. Surely it will be nice to have a couple of weeks on full pay rather than 80% anyway?

I don't think they can force you to use up leave you haven't yet accrued so I would challenge that.

When I have taken ML I have always just taken 11 months then used all of my accrued holidays for the final month taking it to the year. Most places the last 3 months are without pay anyway.

nicknamehelp · 21/11/2020 08:57

Employers can book holiday for you if give you correct notice. You will be paid your full salary for holiday days so not loosing out. This has been a really hard year for employers and having a workforce with loads of holiday to take is only going to give them more problems when they are trying to get going again. Also by being a difficult employee now may not be a long term plan if redundancies need to be made. 16 days in the life of your baby is nothing.

ariana1 · 21/11/2020 09:05

Hi - maybe call ACAS if it’s not clear. I can see they can ask you to take accrued leave but they shouldn’t discriminate and treat you differently. I’d be very wary of a maternity policy written by your manager on the hoof.
It’s not selfish to carry over paid leave so you can spend more paid time off with your baby. Check your rights and raise the issue higher; the poster that thinks the national debt should be at the forefront of your mind has a strange set of priorities! Good luck.

DianaT1969 · 21/11/2020 09:25

I actually think your company are idiots who are wasting tax payers money by not insisting that holiday accrued during furlough is taken this year.
Are they financially sound? I can only think they don't want to pay the holiday this year to the rest of the employees because they can't afford it, or plan to go into liquidation?

dontdisturbmenow · 21/11/2020 09:26

This makes absolutely no sense to me, why would I take 36 days annual leave before my ML, when I could take it after and enjoy longer with the baby?
Because the company interested that of the company, not you. They are clearly struggling so need to the company doesn't waste more money.

They are within the law and doing what is right. Complaining about it when you will have been laid almost a year without having to work is quite bad form.

Hardbackwriter · 21/11/2020 09:40

@LazyLucille

I would use the leave I had already accrued just before my due date. Surely it will be nice to have a couple of weeks on full pay rather than 80% anyway?

I don't think they can force you to use up leave you haven't yet accrued so I would challenge that.

When I have taken ML I have always just taken 11 months then used all of my accrued holidays for the final month taking it to the year. Most places the last 3 months are without pay anyway.

I assume that part of the issue is that if OP is furloughed she wants to take mat leave from due date because if she does she has the weeks on 80% without working and then weeks on full pay left to take when she comes back, whereas if she takes holiday now she gets the full pay but the equivalent weeks at the end will be unpaid/on SMP, both of which are a lot less good a deal than furlough...
movingonup20 · 21/11/2020 09:40

Unless you plan to work to your due date, take it prior to starting leave, by 36 weeks it's good to be able to take a break before baby arrives. I'm not sure they can make you take the leave you will accrue prior to you getting it. Asking you to take 2020's leave seems fair enough

Original poster
Est103 · 21/11/2020 10:27

Hi all,

Thanks so much this is all really helpful. Sounds like being asked to take accrued leave isn't unusual, but it isn't normal to be asked to take leave that hasn't yet been accrued - the point about if I were to return to work after just a few months, being left with no holiday is a really good one, thank you.
I guess it feels unfair when no one else is being asked to take leave before they come off furlough. And actually, I double checked and the ML policy doesn't say you have to take accrued leave before ML, this was in an letter just to me, but it sounds like a lot of others on this post have been asked the same so I'll go with it.

I am starting my ML only a few days before my due date (why would I take it earlier when furloughed?), so those that have mentioned it are right that it gives me longer and is better financially to tag it all on the end.

To those who say it's selfish to want furlough...that's not very helpful, this isn't the place for getting into that but I would have done anything to not be furloughed over the past 9 months and been able to take leave in the usual way as and when I need it.

Thanks everyone for your help on this :)

OP posts:
Original poster
Est103 · 21/11/2020 10:34

this is something I hadn't thought of and super helpful thank you. If I put it in the right way it can come across non-confrontational I think

OP posts: