Change to holidays

[BrightBlueCast]

This is I suppose a fairly minor gripe in the scheme of things.

Been in job 10 years plus. Normal holiday allocation is 25 days plus a weeks' closure at Xmas/New Year plus usual bank holidays. We're all on part-time/furlough. Holiday year runs Sept - August. Been told that we now have to take 5 days at Xmas from our allocation, and have to have taken at least 11 days by end of March, leaving 14 for the rest of the holiday year (ie up till end August). Not the end of the world, I know, but it's different to what we've been doing for the past decade.

Boss hasn't exactly explained why this but has stated it's a necessary sacrifice in the current climate etc. But I'm thinking it's

• so they don't end up having to pay holiday accrued but not taken if/when she makes redundancies at end of March (when furlough ends)
• so they can claim holiday money under the furlough scheme for Xmas

Given we're already all on 80% (since March) and now have fewer holidays to take, it feels like a double-blow and not good for morale. Boss implied that we won't be so much in need of lots of holiday in the summer next year as we haven't been working as hard, as there's less to do (implying we haven't earned it). In this business, being away on holiday doesn't effective productivity as we cover for each other and the industry in general is very quiet in July/August.

Just seems a bit of a kick in the teeth.

You should get 100% pay for holiday days you take. Its so everyone doesn't need to take all their holidays at once when you go back.

We're working though. Reduced hours for 80% pay (20% of which the Gov pays, I think). It's definitely not to avoid a holiday build up as we're all here as normal, just working fewer hours every day. Tiny company - 6 including the boss/owner. Holidays have always been carefully planned so we're not all away together.

But ahhhhh - do you mean we should get 100% rather than 80% for the holidays? I've already taken lots of holiday in furlough and didn't see a penny more than the 80%. I think the boss assumed the extra money was for the company, not the individuals.

Furloughed workers

An employer should not automatically pay a worker on holiday the rate of pay that they are receiving while on furlough, unless the employer has agreed to not reduce the worker’s pay while on furlough.

If a worker on furlough takes annual leave, an employer must calculate and pay the correct holiday pay in accordance with current legislation - see thestandard guidance. Where this calculated rate is above the pay the worker receives while on furlough, the employer must pay the difference. However, as taking holiday does not break the furlough period, the employer can continue to claim the 80% grant from the government to cover most of the cost of holiday pay.

Yes your holiday pay should be at your normal wage rather than furlough pay

www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19

The government pays 80% and the company may or may not top up the other 20%. Sounds like your employer is keeping it all for themselves!

So interesting!!!

By pointing this out, I may be advancing myself to the front of the redundancy queue ...

Thanks so much!

As long as they pay you in full for holiday days, and give you enough notice, this is fine.

@dementedpixie

The government pays 80% and the company may or may not top up the other 20%. Sounds like your employer is keeping it all for themselves!

Why does it?

@dementedpixie

The government pays 80% and the company may or may not top up the other 20%. Sounds like your employer is keeping it all for themselves!

Can you explain that a bit more, the employer should be paying 100% for time allocated as holiday and can reclaim the appropriate %age under furlough

They don't claim more than they've paid

Sorry @PleasantVille that bit wasn't about holiday pay it was a reply to this bit in a previous post

Reduced hours for 80% pay (20% of which the Gov pays, I think)

Holiday pay should be at 100%

The revelation for me is that I’ve only been paid 80% for holidays and my boss has been congratulating herself on getting more money from the Gov for holiday hours as opposed to working hours of the staff. Innocent mistake or else she wouldn’t have been so open about it.

The company does not get 100% when you are on holiday
They still get 80% (60% in October, 70% in September)

They have to pay you 100% for holiday.

From HMRC
The employee can take holiday whilst on furlough. Working Time Regulations (WTR) require holiday pay to be paid at the their normal rate of pay or, where their rate of pay varies, calculated on the basis of the average pay they received in the previous 52 working weeks. Therefore, if they take holiday while on furlough, their employer should pay them at 100% of their usual pay in accordance with the WTR. Employers will be obliged to pay the additional 20% over the CJRS grant, though will have the flexibility to restrict when leave can be taken if there is a business need.

Santa: I wonder why the boss thinks she's better off when we're on holiday then? And it's presumably financially better for her to reduce our holidays as we're all on 80%? In the past Xmas was closed (and not taken from annual leave) then we'd get 25 days on top. Now she wants the Xmas closure days to come from our 25 day annual leave. Because in the long-run that'll be cheaper for the company I imagine.

I suspect any enquiries by me will be met with a 'well, just think yourself lucky you still have a job'. I guess she has a point. But I wish it were all a little more transparent.

Also, does this being paid 100% for holidays apply right from the beginning of the furlough scheme (from April) or just from when it became more flexible? I have been paid 80% since the start, although I started part-time hours again in ?July I think it was.

@MumofTeenDespair

Santa: I wonder why the boss thinks she's better off when we're on holiday then? And it's presumably financially better for her to reduce our holidays as we're all on 80%? In the past Xmas was closed (and not taken from annual leave) then we'd get 25 days on top. Now she wants the Xmas closure days to come from our 25 day annual leave. Because in the long-run that'll be cheaper for the company I imagine.

I suspect any enquiries by me will be met with a 'well, just think yourself lucky you still have a job'. I guess she has a point. But I wish it were all a little more transparent.

She's better off as if you took your holidays when furlough is ended she'd have to pay you 100% for the time you're on holiday, if you take them during furlough she only has to pay the amount she can't claim for.

There's nothing wrong with that per se, on its own it doesn't make an employer a bad one

@MumofTeenDespair

Also, does this being paid 100% for holidays apply right from the beginning of the furlough scheme (from April) or just from when it became more flexible? I have been paid 80% since the start, although I started part-time hours again in ?July I think it was.

It apply from the start of the scheme, the introduction of flexible furlough has nothing to do with holiday pay.

If your holidays are taken during furlough they can claim 80% of the pay back and only need to pay 20% themselves to top you up to 100%

As far as I know that's always been the case since furlough started

So I’m owed a top up to 100% for all the holiday I took since March then. And ditto for my colleagues. I wonder how the boss missed that. I guess she could refuse to pay it. She’s not going to be happy.

In which case it actually costs company more to have us take holiday in furlough as then we get 100% not 80%. Boss is not topping up our furlough pay.

But if you take holiday after furlough ends then they have to pay you 100% without being able to claim back 80%.

@MumofTeenDespair

In which case it actually costs company more to have us take holiday in furlough as then we get 100% not 80%. Boss is not topping up our furlough pay.

But if you took that holiday after furlough it would cost them 100%-more if they have to backfill your role. At the moment the government is covering 80% of your holiday days off.

@MumofTeenDespair

In which case it actually costs company more to have us take holiday in furlough as then we get 100% not 80%. Boss is not topping up our furlough pay.

Yes it costs more. But it costs far more if you take it later. Taking it during furlough means the company only has to pay 20%. If you take that holiday next year when you’re not on furlough, it’ll cost them many times more.