Pre Disciplinary offer of exit package by employer

[TimeToCloseTheDoor]

I have worked for the same company for 9 years in the same role.

I’m diagnosed and medicated for anxiety, company aware and have supported me through a period of illness for a couple of months 3 years ago. Unfortunately I started to struggle again in the middle of last year, I didn’t tell anyone and just hoped it would pass which it hasn’t and resulted in me making some admin errors, entering the wrong time on an invite letter, forgetting to file/document some disciplinary information on an employee.

I made one of the above clerical errors once I returned from furlough resulting in a complaint being raised which naturally led to an investigation meeting with a letter of concern being placed on my file.

It then came to light I’d forgotten to file/document something resulting in a 2nd investigation meeting. I couldn’t cope, my manager agreed it was very unlike me and my GP signed me off which put the outcome on hold.

I’ve been away from work nearly 4 weeks, had my meds changed and started talking therapy with a plan to ease myself back in to work/be furloughed, I don’t know which would have happened first.

Today the HR director called me and asked if I wanted to enter in to an exit consultation due to my length of service I’m stunned. I asked if I was likely to be dismissed for making 2 clerical errors in 9 years - no answer as the process is on hold. I’ve never had any bother at work, always known what I’m doing and capable apart from 2 blips with my MH in 9 years there have been no other issues.

They want me to email to re start the process whilst I’m off unfit for work (fine by me but I don’t know if it’s the right thing to do?)

I also don’t know what to expect from an exit conversation. I don’t want to leave but I can’t imagine being able to go back knowing they don’t want me (I appreciate that may not be the case, I’m still struggling to be well, I’m doing better it just takes time)

WWYD? Please don’t out me if you recognise some details from previous threads under my usual username

It does sound like they are moving to termination. And wish to provide you with a financial package if you agree to mutual termination.

If you do not, then you have the ability to plead your case that you’re able to return fully. How much sick leave do you have left this year?

Alternatively is there a chance they could move to redundancy? Or capability termination?

You need to decide what you want to do here. Fight it. Or accept it. It’s your call.

Whether your errors are disciplinary matters will depend on what there were and whether you attempted to cover up your errors. Most employers have a policy on sickness, should be in your contract, and it will state after how long exit procedures start, a month is possible. I would suggest checking your contract first if all, then discussing what they are suggesting before you make any decisions

Reading your contract first is correct, sorry. Then decide. But it does read like you only went off sick when they found the errors and you were in the middle of the investigation, And one error was last year ? They have only just found it?

So first error found, investigation, letter of concern to file. second error found, investigation started and you go off sick. Which has stalled the outcome of their investigation and they are now moving to termination.

It seems the errors were you invited the wrong person to something and you didn’t file someone’s disciplinary record. Which could be construed as gross misconduct. Of course the fact you’re ill and did not tell them, only being signed off Mid the second investigation doesn’t look great, because a lot of folks do this to try to get out of it.

Decide what you want to do, fight or flight, and then act accordingly. I’d also be asking about the likely outcome of the current investigation. It doesn’t look like it is a positive, I’m sorry, and claiming you were ill at the time but hid it, is a breach of trust.

Thank you. I do see how it looks from the other side. I didn’t hide it as such as I didn’t know I was becoming unwell again. I also didn’t know I’d made the 2 errors until the invite to investigation so no covering up but the errors were still made an I own them.

I’ll ask for a copy of my contract, it doesn’t look good though does it? I know others who have suffered were off close to a year on full pay albeit not in a more senior role with responsibilities - I guess not recording accurately can result as gross misconduct although it feels very harsh in the grand scheme of service and only happening once.

I did go off mid investigation as I honestly couldn’t take any more. I had urges to crash my car/drive over bridges, I had my plan and everything but that is my issue (which I’m dealing with) not theirs.

Thank you for helping clarify things, I’m struggling to see things clearly.

Op do you really want to go back, or do you really need to?

It does seem harsh yes, it depends how you look at it. On one side you say it was two errors.

On the other it’s two errors from an employee who didn’t know they were ill and not capable of doing the role, and was seriously ill during rhe investigation. How do they know if you get ill again the same mistakes won’t happen or that you’ll know?

I think if you want to stay you need to focus on talking them through how you’ve regained your ability to perform and what plans you’re putting in place to prevent a repccurance, or that you’d know it was happening again

But think carefully if you really want to go back. Or if you’d rather get a package, if you want the package go in and fight for a years pay.

I really appreciate your help. I honest;y don’t know. It was so un expected and I’ve now received an email in regards to the conversation today re instating the disciplinary process instead of me emailing them as agreed.

It feels like they are pushing for dismissal/putting pressure on to accept an exit package I honestly can’t think straight although, going back living under a cloud waiting for the next thing to go wrong will not help my MH. I just can’t believe it

What will happen to my pension and benefits, car etc?

Op, are you in a union? Or have you called acas for advice? You sound like you need a helping hand to get you through

I’ve emailed and accepted viewing the exit offer. No point stringing it out.

One door closes and all that.

Op you don’t need to accept it. You can also seek an employment lawyer . Decide what you want, and negotiate if you do wish to leave. Make it clear it was two errors when unwell. That you’re in recovery and getting treatment, that you’ve full capacity to do your role. Think of how much you want and start there, I’d start at a year as said.

Good luck.

@CoRhona

Op, are you in a union? Or have you called acas for advice? You sound like you need a helping hand to get you through

Thank you and sorry I missed your post yesterday. I have emailed the Union, I am a member but I guess they are pretty busy right now with the state of things.

I have a teams call this morning to discuss it all although I’m not well enough to think clearly.

I have been in a similar situation. You have 10 working days to respond to any settlement offer so don’t let them pressure you. If you are able seek advice from an employment solicitor.

Only 10 days, that’s not very long is it! I’ll see what they say this morning, I have nothing to say. I can’t think straight and still can’t get over being in this situation.

Thank goodness my family are so lovely and supportive

Glad to see you has IRL support.

OP you do sound very ill, so well done on getting help & look after yourself

If you so take the offer remember to include the reference wording as part of the agreement

Op, it doesn’t look like you’re ready to go back to work any time soon, but you don’t need to reveal this to them, just try to stay calm, even pretend you are ready, it puts them on the back foot in terms of termination and calmly explain your terms and why Ie terminating an unwell employee over two errors, don’t react there and then, just say you’ll review. You can email in your thoughts after.

OP you don't sound well enough to be dealing with this situation at the moment. A responsible HR head would recognise this. Please speak to your union and ACAS before proceeding with any meetings or communication.

If you feel that you have to respond to them before speaking with your union I would send an email along the following lines -

Dear HR,

As you are aware I am currently on sick leave due to my ongoing MH situation.

As I am currently experiencing a high level of stress as well as my MH issues I have contacted my union to request their support with this process going forward.

I believe that my current MH is severely impacting my ability to comprehend and process information. I would therefore expect the meeting, and any associated action, be postponed until I have union representation and my interests are properly represented and protected.

I would appreciate any further contact regarding the matter being made by email in order for me to be able to process it in my own time (MH allowing) or to forward your message verbatim to my appointed representative.

Failure to recognise my position is in breach of current UK disability legislation (INSERT RELEVANT LEGISLATION - sorry I can't recall it immediately myself. )

I look forward to your urgent response by email.

Kind regards,

OP

I'm not an employment lawyer but was involved in a similar situation to yourself a few years ago and employed a solicitor.

Keep your chin up OP, PM me if you want some support 💐

I’m not sure the op is disabled and I’m not sure this law applies to be honest? It needs to be both substantial and long term and the op has not said it’s long term, in fact the opposite.

And I’m also not sure that it’s fair to say the head of hr should know how ill she is, because they can only go on what the op tells them,,even in this post she starts off saying she was getting ready to ease herself back into work.

Is it a compensation agreement they are taking about?

This is where you and the company agree to part ways and they give you a sum of money. I've done this twice now, both times I received 4 months of money, tax free and was put on garden leave for two months prior, so I had a further two months at home paid. The company will also give you a good reference as it's not classed as them terminating you, but it's also not redundancy so the company can backfill your position.

@Bluntness100 for the purposes of employment her MH issues have been longstanding and are ongoing and that makes her absolutely able to identify/be identified as disabled under UK law

Yes, but you’re assuming she wants to portray them as long standing going forward, as such no imminent recovery is forecast, and that’s not what she said is the case.

Plus if she portrays it to be long standing and significant then they are able to move to capability termination and basically give her her notice.

@Bluntness100

Yes, but you’re assuming she wants to portray them as long standing going forward, as such no imminent recovery is forecast, and that’s not what she said is the case.

Plus if she portrays it to be long standing and significant then they are able to move to capability termination and basically give her her notice.

I don’t want to portray that, I am getting better and will get there it just takes time and they don’t appear to want to support that and from a business point of view I can understand why really.

Scary lady from the union called me so I’ve had a conversation with her and will talk again after this mornings call.

I just want to get it over with so I can concentrate on completely recovering and finding a new path.

The gov online toolkit has revealed I’d make a good astronaut or bodyguard so that’s a positive... (quiet smirk)

Yes, I think it was clear you didn’t wish to portray this as you are disabled, as you don’t feel that’s the case.

Good luck this morning, just try not to react, listen to what rhey have to say, and prepare what you wish to say in advance.

On the information given, I also doubt you'd meet the definition of disability under the Equality Act. A letter telling work they're in breach of legislation is a very bad idea. Having said that, your employer may err on the side of caution and assume that you do meet the definition, and any offer to you may reflect this. It's cheaper for them to pay you a bit more now than risk the costs of litigation.

It's really positive that you're a union member, they can support you through this.

When you speak to your employer, don't feel pressured to commit to anything. Don't worry about uncomfortable silences. Take the information they give to you and discuss it with your union rep.

After the call, give yourself permission to relax and look after yourself.

Go for as much money as possible, start high, and you don’t need to do it in the meeting, you can do it after, via email. If it’s low ball you can say at the meeting on first glance it doesn’t meet my requirements, but let me think about it

Then email saying something along the lines of two errors in nine years of good service, errors made whilst ill, now on the path to recovery, potential unfair dismissal and during a very difficult time due to Covid to be back on the job market, as such expectation is x,..if they have low balled you stand a decent chance of bringing it up and getting more.

I was just making a point that OP could get some breathing space people 👍🏼 I choose not to identify as disabled but my circumstances were similar in the past and I was advised that was a route that I could consider by my employment solicitor, and I guess she knew what she was talking about 💐

@TimeToCloseTheDoor good luck with the space flights!!! 💐

OP you should be fighting any exit package. They knew you had health problems and do not appear to have made any adjustments to help you cope with these. So any mistakes could be blamed on not having the right support in place. You shouldn't have accepted it and instead pushed for more support.