Permanent contract to zero hours... Help!

[RaininSummer]

I wonder if anyone can advise about the best thing to do here as Google isn't helping much. I have messaged citizen's advice but that may take a while.

The story is that I have worked 4 days a week at least for the same smallish employer for over 9 years and am now almost 58. I was part time furloughed since April working 14 hrs a week. Work has fizzled so boss told me this week that she wants to move me to a zero hour contract and envisages between 4 and 14 hours work a week but obviously not guarenteed . I understand how zero hrs contracts work but am concerned that I am being shafted in a way because if redundancy then comes along, I will have lost all my qualifying years.

My question is, would I be really stupid to accept this or would I be wrong to argue and force redundancy assuming that is an option? I would rather stay there really but am concerned this is a tactic and I will regret it when I earn tuppence a week for months and then am let go. Arggg. Thanks in advance if anybody can advise.

In your op you advise you were part time furloughed from April is that correct ? I ask as I believe with the original furlough you were not able to work and your employer receive furlough money at the same time. The part time furlough only came into play in July.

I would certainly call ACAS for advice as it seems her offer would leave you much worse off

”the only fair dismissal mechanism that the “needs of the business” comes into is redundancy.”

Have to say I disagree with this. The needs of a business are relevant in capability dismissals. They are relevant in SOSR dismissals, including those taking place because of a restructuring or a business-critical terms and conditions change.

I think in the context of the dramatic reduction in work in the OP’s circumstance, the alternative to the proposed change should be redundancy. But in different circumstances, with restructuring or changes to operating requirements or all sorts of things, a different reason for dismissal might be the appropriate one and business reasons would be not only relevant, but crucial to ascertain fairness.

Hi all. I had totally forgotten about the 1000 incentive for employers. She won't have. Re furlough I was ft furlough at first then when the gov allowed, did part time. Pretty sure no rules were broken then. Essentially my job has gone and this only has a loose link to Covid. I am the only one in such a bad position because I was the only one doing this role and affected so badly.

Obviously needs of businesses change but I doubt its ever considered right to give someone 5 days warning of a switch from 4 days a week permanent work to zero hours especially when she saw this coming months ago and should probably have started redundant y procedures. The more I think about it, the more I can see what she is up to. I would think at least a months notice of change would be expected as that is what I would be expected to give. Its quite ridiculous really and has necessitated me cancelling planned work as I still have a few bits to finish up.

I will fight it and walk away with nothing if necessary rather than accept a few hours a week so I can then be made redundant without getting anything or forced to leave anyway because of the scant hours. This firm have a track record of treating people badly at the end of their time with them.

Even without the fact I feel screwed over Re redundancy, the idea of a zero hours contract in my field of work gives me huge anxiety as I am the only earner in my household and it will prevent me picking up full days of work.

Thanks again everyone.

Where did my paragraphs go? Hoping to hear back from a law firm tommorow.

Good luck it sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one...

@flowery

”the only fair dismissal mechanism that the “needs of the business” comes into is redundancy.”

Have to say I disagree with this. The needs of a business are relevant in capability dismissals. They are relevant in SOSR dismissals, including those taking place because of a restructuring or a business-critical terms and conditions change.

I think in the context of the dramatic reduction in work in the OP’s circumstance, the alternative to the proposed change should be redundancy. But in different circumstances, with restructuring or changes to operating requirements or all sorts of things, a different reason for dismissal might be the appropriate one and business reasons would be not only relevant, but crucial to ascertain fairness.

I know very well all the fair reasons for dismissal. However I didn’t see the need to go over all of them on this thread for the sake of showing off rather than helping the OP. If OP is willing to accept the new deal they cannot be forced into it and the only dismissal mechanism the employer would be left with for OP is redundancy. A business cannot unilaterally reduce somebody’s hours due to decreased demand because it is “due to business needs” is the point I was making. This is neither a capability nor a SOSR situation.

*not willing

”I know very well all the fair reasons for dismissal.”

I’m sure you do. Lots of people don’t. Lots of people read these threads and consider how they apply to their own situation. If they see someone stating with what appears to be some authority that business needs are only relevant in a redundancy situation they might quite reasonably take that at face value.

”However I didn’t see the need to go over all of them on this thread for the sake of showing off rather than helping the OP.”

You didn’t need to go over them. Why would you? You just needed to be precise and accurate. You stated that the only fair reason for dismissal that business needs come into is redundancy. That is simply wrong as a statement. And in fact you were responding to someone else describing a different situation anyway, so there is no reason for anyone to assume you meant specifically in the OP’s case.

And thanks for insinuating that I give up my time to show off rather than help people. How charming. Such a shame when people can’t take anyone disagreeing with them without being unpleasant back.

Good luck OP. Hope everything works out one way or another.

Hi, just to update all who kindly offered advice... I managed to fight off the zero hours at present but am now furloughed again as it has been extended. Obviously busy looking for a new job as this is never going to end well I suspect. I have even found a union to join (UCU). I genuinely had no idea that there was an appropriate union for my workplace.