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Interview & Offer - WWYD?

23 replies

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 12:00

Hi all, I’m posting for advice and opinions after a recent job interview (And apologies in advance, this is a bit long)... I recently applied for a job as Head of Department in a large company – The job ticked loads of boxes for me and I was really keen on the role and the company.

The final interview was last Friday morning and I’d been given further tasks to complete beforehand (which included a written exercise to discuss at the interview).

I was interviewed by a senior director and the Chief Operating Officer. It felt as though I had a good rapport with them and they mentioned throughout that they were really impressed with the written exercise I submitted and with my experience etc. All in all, v. positive and I thought I had a great chance of landing the job. They told me they'd be in touch by the end of the day with a decision.

I got a phone call at 5pm that day from the director to say I hadn’t been successful. He said my interview had been “excellent”, I was an “exceptional candidate”, and it was down to me and one other person. Apparently they “agonised” over the decision and there was very little in it between me and the other person.

He then asked if I’d be willing to explore taking on another role with the company, as they're keen “not to lose me”, and he’s in the process of building a team and wants me on board. The role on offer is at a slightly lower level (mid-management rather than head of dept.) and I'd be managed by the person who beat me to the job I originally applied for.

I was really disappointed not to have got the job I went for. At the same time, it was good to hear that they were keen for me to join the company. I felt as though he was going to some effort to put me into an alternative role, so I said that yes, I'd be open to exploring the alternative. He asked me what salary I’d expect for the new role (seems my expectations and his were in line), and he said he’d work up a job description and package with HR and be back in touch “in the week” (i.e. this week).

I haven’t heard anything back since then (almost a week now) and I’m now starting to think perhaps this director overpromised and nothing will materialise. Having also had some time to think, I have a few misgivings - The role being suggested isn’t in line with where I’d like to be career-wise... I know job titles don’t always automatically translate, but I worked at that level a few years ago and I'm a bit concerned about how it’ll sit on my CV. Also, although I’ve no doubt it’d be an interesting role to be in, there’s a possibility that I might coast working at that level. Another issue (and I don’t want to come across as cocky - because I’m not in the slightest!), but I’m concerned about under-selling myself, especially if there was so little in it between me and the other candidate. At the same time, it’d be a good company to work for and there'd be the possibility of some good development opportunities…

My DH thinks I should chase up the director for an update and not make a decision either way until I’ve seen a JD and salary for the role if it materialises (and also see if there’s any scope for negotiation).

I’m really torn. Would appreciate hearing your thoughts, and what you’d do in a similar situation… Thanks.

OP posts:
GallusAlice79 · 15/10/2020 12:21

I agree with your husband. Wait and see the job description and salary. But I'd only take it if there was a clear path for me to move up without relying on this other guy moving on.

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 12:43

Thanks @GallusAlice79 - that's a really good point about progression. One of the things that's concerned me is that whether by taking it I might be at risk of being stuck in a rut.

The other thing is whether to get in touch to see where things are RE creating this JD and salary, or to just wait. I do appreciate things like this can drag out a bit, and don't want to come across as pushy... At the same time, I suppose I'm being a bit impatient and just want to be able to see what's on offer and make a decision!

OP posts:
GallusAlice79 · 15/10/2020 12:47

I would chase them up, even if he doesn't have a full answer for you, he can give you an update. Nothing wrong with asking for that.

FrangipaniBlue · 15/10/2020 13:31

I'm with your DH, wait it out and see!

I was in a similar position at the start of the year.

Doing a job on a fixed term contract (mat cover) when an "additional position" came up doing the same job in the same team. I applied, was told more or less the same as you however another external candidate "just pipped me". They offered me a permanent but lower position in the team reporting to the successful candidate and I turned it down for all the reasons you've given, been there done that, backwards step on CV etc. etc.

Fast forward a few months (still doing the fixed term maternity cover contract) and I was offered a permanent senior position with another team (same company). Lo and behold actually, if I stay they could now offer me the permanent role that I had previously been unsuccessful in getting.

Sorry mate, that ship has sailed!

Cloudybean · 15/10/2020 13:34

I would chase it up and see, although depends I guess on your job situation currently and whether you are really keen to move to start a new one!

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 13:50

Thanks for the replies, both! It would be sensible to wait and see what's actually on offer before dismissing completely.

@GallusAlice79 I think I might give it until tomorrow and then ask for an update - you're right, nothing wrong in asking

@FrangipaniBlue How frustrating! They've clearly realised (too late) that they should have appointed you to that original role. Sounds as though they want you to stay permanently one way or another though. Are you staying on with them?

I'm beginning to think the role I applied for possibly went to an internal candidate...

The role I've applied for (and my line of work is a bit niche), so annoyingly, the only direct way up would be via the role I applied for in the first place . I would really need them to set out an alternative route to progress otherwise I'd most likely be a bit bored and stagnating... Will have to wait and see what they come back with. Hmm

OP posts:
PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 13:56

Thanks @Cloudybean. I'm currently working full time in a role that I'm really not enjoying, am not at all fulfilled by and have no real room to progress. (Aside from that, my current company isn't in a great position at the moment due to Covid-19, there was previously a discussion about redundnacies in Autumn, which have been avoided for the time being, but no idea how that will look after Christmas.

I've been very keen to move on for a few months now (pre-pandemic I was keeping an eye on the job market and planning a move). On reflection, taking on the role I'm currently in wasn't a great move to make, which might be one of the reasons I'm slightly obsessing over the current situation!

OP posts:
GallusAlice79 · 15/10/2020 14:05

@PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86

When you say your line of work is niche, does that mean there aren't many organisations you could move to? Or just that the line of work is niche?

Seeing your update about progression I was at first thinking be wary about taking the job...but now seeing about your current role I'm back to not ruling it out completely Grin

Regardless of whether you take it or not, keep looking for a job at the right level.

Cloudybean · 15/10/2020 14:17

I think your suggesting here is reasonable:

The role I've applied for (and my line of work is a bit niche), so annoyingly, the only direct way up would be via the role I applied for in the first place . I would really need them to set out an alternative route to progress

Their response will be very telling, if they set out something realistic then great, but if they don't they might be rubbing their hands with glee that you are working for cheaper but with the same level of experience etc. But definitely worth an ask, do consider how it will feel to be managed by the person who got your job though, especially as it sounds you're both equally as competent on the whole.

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 14:24

@GallusAlice79 Grin haha, yes it’s a bit tempting to just move on to anything just to get out of my current job – I’m extremely wary of that! It’s the line of work is a bit niche rather than where I could work… When I’m doing a job search I usually see at least a handful of jobs in my field being advertised, so I guess there are a fair number of organisations I could move on to – and far more options now that working remotely is likely to become more commonplace.
You are right about going in at the right level and I definitely won’t be keeping all my eggs in one basket – I’m trying to line-up a back-up option for in case this falls through, or in case what they come back with isn’t great. I have an interview on Monday (different role, different organisation) It’s a senior role (like the one I applied for and didn’t get, but on a 1 year FTC with possibility of renewal)…

OP posts:
GallusAlice79 · 15/10/2020 14:29

@PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86

I wouldn't be put off by a FTC. I see them more often now, and I think as long as you show how good you are the expectation is to go permanent. They just want to make sure they aren't getting someone not up to scratch!

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 14:31

@Cloudybean I suppose it would be a pretty good deal for them if they offer something at a much lower rate and I was to accept (I really don’t think I would!) I think you’re spot on about considering how it’d feel to be managed by the person who got the job – That’s been a concern, as it does sound as though we’re potentially at a similar level. That really does make it feel like a sideways step…

OP posts:
PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 14:34

@GallusAlice79 There do seem to be more FTCs around these days. I'll definitely still go for the interview for the FTC job - it'll be good to have another option to potentially consider (fingers crossed!)

OP posts:
GallusAlice79 · 15/10/2020 14:37

@PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86

Good luck 🍀

mumonthehill · 15/10/2020 14:37

Very similar happened to me, was not offered the job I went for but another role within the team. I accepted that role although it was not the career progression I wanted, however the salary was higher than I was on. I bitterly regret taking this role and it was mainly due to being frustrated in my former job. I jumped into it too quickly, swayed by slightly more money and a new challenge. I should have thought more about it, am now stuck in a position where the person who got the role I went for is awful to work with. Think hard before you do consider taking it!!!

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 14:43

@GallusAlice79 Thank you Smile

@mumonthehill Thank you, that's real food for thought. I'm really sorry to hear about your experience - that's awful and it really leads me to think that I won't necessarily be making the best possible move.

Once they come back with an offer I'll definitely be considering things very carefully indeed.

OP posts:
PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 15:38

@mumonthehill I hope you don't mind me asking, but does the person who got the job know that you originally went for it as well? (And if so, do you think that adds to them being horrid to work with?)

OP posts:
mumonthehill · 15/10/2020 16:25

It is ironic actually, he does not know, however he worked for a company I worked for before but was made redundant. He was difficult there as well although he worked in a different geographical area so I did not work with him then. It may be that my frustrations at feeling I could do his job better than he is colours my own work, I am trying to distance myself from those thoughts. This role has given me more opportunity to network and make connections that I hope will enable me to move on when the time is right. Thinking positive!!!

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 17:02

The networking and connections will be invaluable, and you sound extremely experienced and capable so I'm sure it won't be long until you move onto a more fitting role - Fingers crossed for you.

There'll be a lot to consider - I'll be chasing for an update, and will be interested to see what's presented back, but I'll need to balance the desire to move on with the points you raise @mumonthehill about taking a side step and working for the person who got the job.

I think my feelings could very easily be coloured by being constrained in a lower role and unable to work to my full potential, and knowing I'm capable and experienced enough to be doing my potential boss' job! Sad

OP posts:
SoloMummy · 15/10/2020 17:58

If he's creating a jd from nowhere, it will need to be accepted by other directors/hr at least in principle, before he can share it. If he shared and then it was retracted that would be worse imo.
I personally think that expecting it within the week would be expecting a lot and wouldn't chase personally until this time next week, to give him a chance to be as good as his word.

PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 · 15/10/2020 19:42

If he's creating a jd from nowhere, it will need to be accepted by other directors/hr at least in principle, before he can share it.

Hi @SoloMummy, thanks v much - The role he's suggesting is based on one that the company plans to recruit in the coming weeks (it's marked out on their organisational diagram as "to be appointed" and is apparently "urgently needed"). It's for a Snr. Manager that'd work under the Head of Dept. job that I didn't get.

I don't think he'll necessarily be creating a JD from nowhere. From the conversation with him, it sounded as though he'd be using the JD for the Snr. Manager role and then tailoring it, if that makes sense....?

His proposal was to offer me the Snr. Manager job and that he would pull a JD and package together that would reflect that me having a higher than usual level of experience for that role.

The reason I'd asked whether to chase for an update was because he said he'd be "in touch with an offer in the week". He was pretty confident at being back in touch in that timeframe, and I suppose given how sure he was, I had no reason but to believe that would be the case.

I do realise it can take a while to get things like this agreed and signed-off between senior management teams/HR etc. (Perhaps there's been a bit of over-promising on the timescales!) And I agree with you, it would be disastrous if an offer had been shared and then retracted.

The thing is, I've absolutely no idea what process he'd have to go through to get a draft JD and package signed off, or if any progress is being made on it at all.

OP posts:
SoloMummy · 15/10/2020 20:52

@PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86

If he's creating a jd from nowhere, it will need to be accepted by other directors/hr at least in principle, before he can share it.

Hi @SoloMummy, thanks v much - The role he's suggesting is based on one that the company plans to recruit in the coming weeks (it's marked out on their organisational diagram as "to be appointed" and is apparently "urgently needed"). It's for a Snr. Manager that'd work under the Head of Dept. job that I didn't get.

I don't think he'll necessarily be creating a JD from nowhere. From the conversation with him, it sounded as though he'd be using the JD for the Snr. Manager role and then tailoring it, if that makes sense....?

His proposal was to offer me the Snr. Manager job and that he would pull a JD and package together that would reflect that me having a higher than usual level of experience for that role.

The reason I'd asked whether to chase for an update was because he said he'd be "in touch with an offer in the week". He was pretty confident at being back in touch in that timeframe, and I suppose given how sure he was, I had no reason but to believe that would be the case.

I do realise it can take a while to get things like this agreed and signed-off between senior management teams/HR etc. (Perhaps there's been a bit of over-promising on the timescales!) And I agree with you, it would be disastrous if an offer had been shared and then retracted.

The thing is, I've absolutely no idea what process he'd have to go through to get a draft JD and package signed off, or if any progress is being made on it at all.

I'll be honest and say that when I have previously created jd and gone for sign off etc, it has taken some time. One was months. However, we would stick draft over it and STC so effectively we'd use that once general nods had been received. But that alone would have been a number of weeks. So Hopefully he's got something that's been semi-prepared.

Good luck.

FrangipaniBlue · 15/10/2020 21:30

How frustrating! They've clearly realised (too late) that they should have appointed you to that original role. Sounds as though they want you to stay permanently one way or another though. Are you staying on with them?

@PatButchersSpanglyEarrings86 I have yeah, the second job they offered me really was the one I wanted and the team I wanted to be in so they did me a favour turning me down for the first one!! Grin

Hope you get sorted one way or another, but go with your gut !!

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