ds hates creche - but 3 month notice period major guilt

[monkey]

I'll try to keep it brief, but it's not my strong point!

I live in Switzerland. i have ds1 who's 5 & just started Kindergarten. Although we have lived here 4 years, ds1 started at Kindergarten last month with very little German & that saddens me.

I didn't want ds2, who's nearly 4, to start Kindergarten next August also with no German, so I arranged for him to go to a creche. The only do full days, but I thought for language developement this would be better than a couple of hours. He also goes to a playgroup for a couple of hours on Thursdays.

Anyway, he started last month so has been 4 or 5 times. the last coiuple of times he's cried & says it's too long, plus he doesn't like haveing a nap (they all have 2 hours sleep, but ds stopped his day time nap 2 years ago!) Anyway I spoke to them & they agreed he didn't have to nap but just look at books/play quietly during the nap time.

Today he was hysterical & sobbing he didn't want to go - it's too long. It was truly heart breaking & I feel trspped. He doesn't need to go _ I'm at home & happy to have him with me. Like I said the reason I got the place for him was because of the language.

The contract is for 3 months written notice. I can't pay for 3 months & him not go, it's really expensive. Everyone else (kids & poarenst) speak very highly of it & I'm sure it's a nice place, but I've never left one of my kids for a whole day & I feel very unhappy & trapped. they said stuff like maybe I can astay with him or collect him at 2 or whatever, but I also have an 11month old who need to have naps & ds1 comes starts his Chindsgi at 1.30, so it's all too much hassle really.

Any ideas? He was really full-on sobbing. I feel thoroughly miserable

If 2 is difficult can you collect him at a time that is OK for you? maybe earlier? it may only need to be for a little while until he gets more used to it, and then maybe he'll want to do the longer days.

could he finsih earlier at all? i know its still money that your paying, but wouldnt be los9ing as much really. then gradually leave him there a bit longer?

dd2 goes to private day care 1 afternoon a wekk, mainly for social and to help her lanugae devolpment. any longer than that i think she's stress. we have lunch with her sister that day (she goes in later on one day a wekk) and then they both go off.

You poor thing. Must be very difficult for you, but don't feel guilty whatever you do. He will have to get used to doing full days at school so you're doing what's best for him. The problem is, as you say, that neither of you are used to him doing full days yet so you're both, understandably not happy.

Why not try dropping him off later? Is there's a time between your new baby's naps when you could drop him off and then again when you could pick him up earlier (as Zubb says), the day would be shorter for him.

Once you've found a length of time that he is happy with, you could always gradually increase it as he becomes more used to staying there.

BR

Hi Monkey

It is a really difficult one. However could you try to agree with him to pick him up earlier than the full day, at a time to suit you preferably, as an interim measure until his language has improved and he feels more comfortable. Perhaps if you could collect home, say, after lunch for a few sessions or take him for lunch and the afternoon, then perhaps have one shorter and one full day he may feel happier and then settle to 2 full days again. If the daycare are aware of his unhappiness would they accept 3 months provisional notice while you try to resolve it or could he do 4 shorter sessions instead of the 2 full days if it doesn't work out. I do find it ironic that the daycares can be so inflexible over sessions but that at Kindergarten they do such short hours in comparison.

I would say it is worth persisting for the long term benefits but you both need to feel comfortable with the arrangements to get the most out of it.

Good luck

Was in a bit similar situation with ds who didn't like going to nursery, in the end took him out of there and paid 1 month ("for nothing"). But worth trying like suggested for shorter periods, 4-5 times isn'tv very much yet

I would say do half days. I don't understand why that is more hassle than having him at home with you full time. If 2pm doesn't suit you, take him at 1pm, or 12.30. Otherwise take him out altogether. You've paid the money, you aren't going to get it back, and it will cost the same whether he's there or not. I suspect he may well settle MUCH better if you bite the bullet and do half days for a while, gradually increasing to one full day or two full days etc. I think he's been rather thrown in at the deep end which suits some children but not others. I took my two year old out of nursery (only three half days) because it really distressed him. Yes, I lost my deposit, but it was 100% worth it.

they only do full days. He has to be there by 9, and I can only collect him after 5. He will never do days as long as this, even when he's in secondary school! AS it is, his older brother goes to Kindergarten 9-12 4 mornings a week and 1.30-3.30 1 afternoon a week, so considerably less.

I would do half days if I could but they don't allow it. they said if he's getting really upset I could maybe come earlier (eg 2 for him) till he settles in. But I know my son, he is happy to go to a playgroup, what he is not happy with is the full 9-5 day. He was so distressed this am & I cannot honestly see he will be better given time. i think he will get worse I really do. the thought of going through this all again next Tuesday makes me feel sick. As it is, I',m having a rare morning alone with ds1 and I feel so miserable about ds2 that I'm being really snappy, plus I'm running to you, for help!

And all of this fannying about, dragging screaming boys to somewhere they don't want to go, prising a sobbing child off me, who's clinging on for dear life, then having to go & get him early/paying all that money, it's just too much for me. But 3 months of fees for nothing. I need to speak to them when I go this pm, but don't know what to say. 'hi, can you waive your 3 month notice period please?' how do I get out of it? I just don't feel I have the strength to put him & me through this again,. I know I sound soppy, but it's almost worse as I am just sat at home, it's not like Ive got to go to work or anything

thanks for your messages though. i feel really miserable about this

Monkey - I think we were suggesting half days as you said that picking him up at 2 was an option.

If the priority is language development can you find more toddler groups to go to. Do you speak German at all? maybe you can have time at home when only German is spoken so that he gets used to it that way?

They may waive the 3 month rule if you talk to them.

Sorry you feel so down about it.

I also wonder if, as he has only recently started, they might relax the 3 months notice (is there a probationary period mentioned anywhere ?), especially if they can fill his space, but, being Swiss, possibly not . I know it is an awful lot of money to stand to lose though. I only mentioned switching to the 4 shorter sessions as that is an option in some of the creches around here (ie. it is still the equivalent of 2 full days) but each daycare is different and some more flexible than others. Perhaps they don't offically do this at yours but it still may be worth raising. My thought was that even if he didn't go the full four each week it would be less costly than losing 2 full days money during the notice period and he may yet settle.

However if both you and he are so upset and miserable it may be better just to cut your losses and look for alternative ways of exposing him to the language.

Sounds like they are inflexible and the only solution is to take him out, monkey. Don't know squit about Swiss law- is the contract totally binding? What would happen if you didn't pay once he leaves?

I do know how you feel. I took my ds out of nursery for the same reason. My argument is, you have paid this money. It's going whether he's there or not, so you won't 'lose' money by taking him out, will you? So given the money has gone, you can either a/wait it out, which might work but if you think it won't then you know your son best b/force him to go for three months during which you might both get more and more miserable and stressed or c/take him out now and cut your losses. I would be inclined to go for option 3, to be honest. I only suggested picking him up earlier because you said that's what the kindergarten suggested. What would happen if you did this regularly? They can't stop you taking him, they can only throw you both out!

Have you already paid for the full 3 months or are you just bound to do so? If the latter, how tight are your bonds? Oooer, sounds a bit kinky but you know what I mean- would you be a criminal if you didn't pay or just a bad egg?

no, I haven't paid yet -- pay monthly. i think, unfortunately i'd be more than a bad egg (which I could live with!) if I didn't pay - these things seem to be extremely strict - you're pretty much committed I've tried ringing for the last hour to check on him but it's permanently engaged - got horrible feeling the 'phone is off the hook for the 2 hours nap time.

Monkey,
Does it say in the contract that he has to be in at 9 and you're not allowed to remove him before 5? Does it say you must leave and cannot stay there with him?

BR

hank you al so so so much. The situation is resolved .

They had, indeed taken the 'phone off the hook for nap time, but then she 'phoned me and said that he'd been crying a lot, and that he was very sad, and that he wouldn't eat (he hasn't eaten anything there at all - that worried me a lot, esp as he is a bit of a pig!) to go for the whole day without any food, and a clear sign he was very unhappy there. Anyway, I told her that I really didn't think that he would get used to it, and would she consider cancelling the contract. Thankfully, she agreed, she was really lovely, thank god she also didn't want to put my son's happiness before money & contracts & I went straight away to get him & that's that. He's covered me with kisses & I'm very happy the situation's sorted. thank you all so much for your words of advice.

Oh, what a relief, monkey. So glad it's sorted and you're not out of pocket. Hope ds recovers soon- he sounds like a real sweetie.

Monkey

I'm so pleased that you have been able to resolve the situation so quickly.

I'm sure you'll find some other way of improving his German which won't cause you both so much stress.....

BR

Hi there, Ive just got back from 1 year living in Frankfurt.
Do you not have any getman friends with kids that you could meet up with, I had a core of 3 friends who spoke a little English and put up with my terrible german, ds ended up understanding a fair amount.
The other option is to go for a tagesmutter-my friend sent her little boy to one for one dy a week and this improved his german skills alot.
Hope it all goes well for you!
And try not to fret, kids pick up language very quickly-My friend moved to germany at 12 and within 3 months was fluent-just like sponges kids!

Monkey, I'm so glad you managed to sort this, wanted to post earlier but am supposed to be at work. Had a very similar situation with ds1 when we lived in Amsterdam, he had been used to fulltime nursery in UK until age 2.5 and was at a bit of a loose end when we moved. Partly because of that and partly because of the language issue, as he would later be going to Dutch school, we put him in a Dutch nursery two days a week. Like your ds he was OK the first couple of times and then used to cry bitterly and cling on to me when I left. Despite the fact that I really needed him to be there as we were moving house and also had a new baby, I fairly quickly relented and took him out, suffering a two month hit on the fees, as he was so unhappy.

Your message about the two hour nap struck a chord with me. At ds's nursery they used to change all the children into pyjamas before lunch and then put them down for a nap from about 12.30 to 3!!! And some of them were almost 4! Needless to say, ds who had also stopped napping around age 2, refused to cooperate and also used to stay up playing or looking at books.

And finally, when he did start school he suffered no ill effects at all from not knowing much of the language and became fluent in a very short time.

thanks annh & nickiey - I keep hearing all this stuff about kids picking it up so quick, but you know my ds1 has been at playgroups over here (only say 2 hours twice a week tho) for 3 years and he speaks and understands very little. Maybe we're a family of thickies or maybe 2x2 is not enough I don't know. i can't believe he's been here all his verbal life & can't speak German.

I also feel he's not integrating/making friends well, and am sure it's totally down to the language, which is why I'm so keen to help ds2 learn as much as poss before he starts Chindsgi in August. He also already goes to the 2 hour a week variety of playgroup, but from my experience with ds1, this isn't enough.

annh, at what age did he start school, did he go half or full days, and how quick did he become fluent? Sounds like I got away very lucky not having to pay the 3 months- only lost 1 week's money

I have considered a Tagesmutter, but can't get one for love nor money round here.

Lizs, are you still in ch? Nice to hear from you again. fancy attempting to meet up again sometime?

please don't take this the wrong way, but what are you going to do if a similar situation arises when he starts chindsgi? is it that different there? was there something specific - apart from the napping which seems ridiculous - that he didn't like? are there any alternative places you could go and see?

i won't take it the wrong way. Apart from the nap, the only other thing he didn't like was the length - 9 - 5 that's 8 hours. The longest Chindsgi session is 3 hours. He is fine at his 2 hour playgroup, and his last one was 2.5 hours. He can't wait to go to Chindsgi, as his brother is there, and he's gone a few times for sessions eg the teeth cleaning, end of term party, open morning and he really liked it.

I can't off the top of my head think of anything else that I can do. they're generally only allowed to watch German or Swiss tv, I deliberately avoid any English speaking groups which I went to when I 1st moved here, and I try to speak to them sometimes in German, but language experts do say 100% agreement, that you should only speak to your child in mother tongue, so don't know what else I can do.

i'm not worrying as such, just keen to do something to help them iyswim. i've got a local girl (15)coming 1 hour on a Friday pm to play with them & talk in Swiss German, hope that helps.

it's tricky. my sil was in belgium, then germany with her 3 kids, and the oldest was virtually fluent when they came back to the uk, though they didn't really speak german at home, although they had a nanny who didnt' speak much english so she spoke it to them.

Monkey, ds1 started school the day after his 4th birthday which is the way they do it in NL. His day was 8.55 to 3.15 with an hour for lunch and he had two half days on Wed and Fri when he finished at noon. He had previously gone to a Dutch pre-school for a year (after the horrible nursery experience) 3 times a week for 3.5 hours.

I really, really wouldn't worry about picking up the language as my ds also seemed to speak very little Dutch as a result of pre-school. He could name individual animals or items if asked but didn't seem keen to string a sentence together. However, I think it was just that the sessions were too separated for him to really get to grips with the language and once he started school he began to speak much more after only a few weeks and it felt like no time at all before he was chatting away happily to his friends.

I know how you are feeling because people told me the same things before ds started school and I kept thinking "yes, but what if I'm the one with the son who isn't a sponge and doesn't just pick it up" but you know what, they were right.

Also with regard to possibly having the same problems of unhappiness when he starts school, he will be older, the dsays will be shorter (probably much shorter if I remember correctly), also he will by then be used to going to school to collect his older brother and it will all be much more familiar.