Leave and BH’s

[FippertyGibbett]

Can someone please explain to me how, in really easy to understand terms, how leave and BH’s are calculated ?
Are BH’s taken from your leave allocation at the beginning of the year ?
Am I right in thinking that, at the beginning of each year, you are given X number of days leave then 8 days leave are taken away to cover the BH’s.
Therefore, if a person always works a Monday/ Tuesday they will have less days leave than someone who always works Wednesday/Thursday ?

I currently work two days a week, no set days, so I always take a BH as one of my days not working and work two days later in the week. Am I doing it wrong as I always get a different answer from different people in HR.
Thanks.

There is no automatic right to not work on a bank holiday. So first step is to check the wording in your contract of employment to see what that says about bank holidays.

It doesn’t say anything about BH’s.

BHs are in addition to your leave allowance unless otherwise stated.

Statutory Holiday Entitlement of 5.6 weeks is inclusive of bank holidays that occur on a working day if your employer allows them to be taken off.
So when a bank holiday occurs you can ask to take it off as annual leave, or you could ask to take it off and work another day in lieu. It would be up to your employer.

Holiday entitlement when you are part time would be pro rated, as would bank holidays

Example.

Mary works 2 days a week, Monday and Tuesday.
Ben works Monday and Friday
Susan works Tuesday and Thursday

For all, the full time holiday entitlement is 25 days plus bank holidays

As they are all two days a week all are entitled to 10 days holiday plus 3 days bank holidays ((8/5)*2 = 3.2, for ease we'll round that down).

The office is closed on bank holidays, and this has to be looked at each year (as it depends on which days Christmas and New Year fall) so in 2020:

Mary benefits from getting 4 bank holidays off so one of those days would be taken out of her 10 days.

Ben benefits from getting 7 bank holidays off so 4 of those days would be taken out of his 10 days.

No bank holidays fall on Susan's working days so she should be given an additional 3 days holiday, taking her to 13 days holiday

It depends on your contract. I am part time and I get a pro rata allowance for bank holidays (parts of the business work them parts don't) if a bank holiday falls on a day I would normally work I use my leave allowance to book it. So someone working Tues-Thursday would be slightly better off leave wise than someone working Mon-Wed. But companies do it differently

Pressed post too soon - I'm not entirely sure how it happens when you don't have fixed days though, as we will always fix days when we employ someone

I work one day a week.
I get the usual holiday allowance for my firm plus bank holidays )so 28 days)
That is the pro rated by 5 so I get 1/5 of that as my holiday allowance.
Like you my day isn't fixed, so if there is a bank holiday on my day I can take the day off or move to another day of work if I can.
As long as overall I take my 6 or 7 days in the year, it doesn't matter if I use them on bank holidays or not.

@gurglebelly

Holiday entitlement when you are part time would be pro rated, as would bank holidays

Example.

Mary works 2 days a week, Monday and Tuesday.
Ben works Monday and Friday
Susan works Tuesday and Thursday

For all, the full time holiday entitlement is 25 days plus bank holidays

As they are all two days a week all are entitled to 10 days holiday plus 3 days bank holidays ((8/5)*2 = 3.2, for ease we'll round that down).

The office is closed on bank holidays, and this has to be looked at each year (as it depends on which days Christmas and New Year fall) so in 2020:

Mary benefits from getting 4 bank holidays off so one of those days would be taken out of her 10 days.

Ben benefits from getting 7 bank holidays off so 4 of those days would be taken out of his 10 days.

No bank holidays fall on Susan's working days so she should be given an additional 3 days holiday, taking her to 13 days holiday

So in that case what would you do with Jim who works two days a week but not set days, he works whatever is needed that week ? Thanks.

Genuinely don't know as none of the businesses I have worked for would have employed someone on anything but set days.

I'd take legal advice, but off the top of my head would approach it like Susan, add it to their holiday entitlement - if they decided a bank holiday would be a working day that week, then they would have to book it as a days holiday

yes, lots of people who just do a flexible 2 days a week would shift their days in the weeks with bank holidays (assuming they can) to not take holiday.

They are not better off (ie they don;t get MORE holidays), bar having more flexibility on when to use their holiday than others with fixed days.

What is HR saying? who is saying you are doing it "wrong"

You can either book a days holiday on a bank holiday, or work a different day.

No one is better off because as a part timer the bank holidays are added to your holiday entitlement.

I don't work Mondays so next week is a normal week for me. I could book a days holiday if I wanted an extra day off.

I have to book Good Friday off, and depending on when Christmas falls, more days then.

The advantage of not working Mondays is you can choose when to use your holiday, rather than having to use it for bank holidays but you don't get more days

I suppose most part timers are on fixed days for either work reasons (ie a job share or only need people on busy days) or because they have domestic responsibilities on the other days they need to stick to (or have arranged child care around the days they work)

so its fairly rare to be flexible about which day you work (as people would say why not do more than 2 days?) . i try and keep to a fixed day each week, so others know when I am in, but if i have exams (i am also a student) I move the day, or if its say new years day, i just come in next day.

It also needs you to be at a senior enough level that you are trusted to move days around and keep up with the actual days taken/owed (only time i have not just moved days within the same week was xmas week, when i did 2 days the week before)

So in that case what would you do with Jim who works two days a week but not set days, he works whatever is needed that week ?

The original calculation by gurglebelly isn't quite right so let's start with that. If full time staff get 25 days holiday per year plus bank holidays, that is a total of 33 days. Someone working 2 days per week is therefore entitled to 13.2 days (33 / 5 * 2), NOT 10 days plus 3 bank holidays. If bank holidays fall on their normal working days and the company shuts down on those days, the bank holiday comes out of their 13.2 days. However, if none of the bank holidays falls on their working days, all 13.2 days are available for them to take whenever they want.

Over the year, it makes no difference to their entitlement whether or not bank holidays fall on their working days. They will be paid for 104 days (2 * 52) and will work 91.8 days (104 - 13.2).

@mdh2020

BHs are in addition to your leave allowance unless otherwise stated.

Where did you get that from?!

Bank holidays are not special in employment law. There is no default position. There is no entitlement to take them off.

As long as employees get the statutory minimum 5.6 weeks leave it is entirely a matter for the employer/the contract whether bank holidays are taken off, and whether they form part of the statutory minimum holiday entitlement or are in addition to it.

OP no one here can tell you how bank holidays are managed at your work. The law is that you must get the same total leave as full timers on a pro rata basis. As long as they are doing that, the rest is up to them.

@burnoutbabe

yes, lots of people who just do a flexible 2 days a week would shift their days in the weeks with bank holidays (assuming they can) to not take holiday.

They are not better off (ie they don;t get MORE holidays), bar having more flexibility on when to use their holiday than others with fixed days.

What is HR saying? who is saying you are doing it "wrong"

Ive spoken to two different people in HR and they both gave me different answers. Plus one of them fu**ed up my leave one year so I don’t trust him. Ive asked them to tell me in really easy terms, but they don’t and treat me like an imbecile. In a BH week I’ve been working two days later in the week, and if I specifically wanted the BH off I would use a leave day. A colleague of mine said she puts the BH down as a working day (although she doesn’t work ) and works one other day in the week.

I’ve just found something that says ‘only part time staff receive pro-rata bank holidays’.
I’ll try again next week.
Thanks.

OP how much annual leave does your contract say you'll get?

And how much leave do full timers get?

We'll be able to tell from that whether you are expected to use a day out of your leave entitlement to take bank holidays off.

So next week there is a bank holiday on Monday. You work two days a week. So your options for next week are:

1. Work two days
2. Work one day and take one day leave
3. Don’t work and take two days leave

The bank holidays are irrelevant as you can choose your working days and you will have a total leave allowance for the year which includes your bank hol allowance (how your company calculates this will be in their policy and no one here can tell you).

@Meg631

So next week there is a bank holiday on Monday. You work two days a week. So your options for next week are:

1. Work two days
2. Work one day and take one day leave
3. Don’t work and take two days leave

The bank holidays are irrelevant as you can choose your working days and you will have a total leave allowance for the year which includes your bank hol allowance (how your company calculates this will be in their policy and no one here can tell you).

This is what I do but my manager thinks I’m wrong. He thinks the Monday is a BH so I don’t take it out of my leave, it’s just a BH and then I work another day.

So your manager thinks you have to take option 1. Your manager is wrong. However, given the confusion in your HR department, there is a question as to whether they have calculated your holiday entitlement correctly in the first place. I would echo flowery's questions - how much annual leave to full timers get and how much annual leave does your contract say you will get?

If you work 2 days in a bank holiday week then you arent getting a days holiday in that week because you are still working 2 days.

You are entitled to 5.6weeks worth of holidays and bank holidays can be included in that entitlement rather than added on. Working for 2 days means you are entitled to at least 11.2 days holiday (depending on full time entitlement).

They dont automatically deduct bank Holidays at the start especially if you have the ability to work them. People who don't work on Mondays get the same number of days holiday but have more choice about when to take holidays if the business tends to be closed on a bank holiday.

There is nothing in my contract about annual leave, I don’t think, but I’ve not got it to hand. I’ve left it in the office and will get it next week.
I get told my leave allowance at the beginning of each financial year.
I will ask a full timer their leave next week and get back to you.
Thanks.

@FippertyGibbett

There is nothing in my contract about annual leave, I don’t think, but I’ve not got it to hand. I’ve left it in the office and will get it next week. I get told my leave allowance at the beginning of each financial year. I will ask a full timer their leave next week and get back to you. Thanks.

There has to be details of your leave entitlement in your contract.

If you get told at the beginning of each year that suggests it changes, which could make sense if you work the same days each week- they could be deducting BH from your leave entitlement to cover BH on your normal working days leaving you with a balance to book. But if your work days are of your choosing it shouldn’t make any difference and your leave entitlement should be the same each year.

@prh47bridge

So in that case what would you do with Jim who works two days a week but not set days, he works whatever is needed that week ?

The original calculation by gurglebelly isn't quite right so let's start with that. If full time staff get 25 days holiday per year plus bank holidays, that is a total of 33 days. Someone working 2 days per week is therefore entitled to 13.2 days (33 / 5 * 2), NOT 10 days plus 3 bank holidays. If bank holidays fall on their normal working days and the company shuts down on those days, the bank holiday comes out of their 13.2 days. However, if none of the bank holidays falls on their working days, all 13.2 days are available for them to take whenever they want.

Over the year, it makes no difference to their entitlement whether or not bank holidays fall on their working days. They will be paid for 104 days (2 * 52) and will work 91.8 days (104 - 13.2).

That's what I said (apart from rounding down the 3.2 to 3)

But I split it out to make it more explicit with the thread examples