illness, bulling and resignation offered alternative working arrangements

[[AUTO]9h77rke1h9a10]

I don't know where to start with this because its such a mess. I have been signed off work and I've handed in my resignation. There maybe some drip feeding as I try to workout in my head what's going on and what to do. And really sorry its long because I'm trying to sort out in my head as well trying to say what's going on.

I've got two problems that causes the workplace bullying, first I'm registered disabled, second I'm a lone parent to two DC's (secondary school). The second bit is quite relevant as my ex was removed by the family home.

My former manager was brilliant while I has having to deal with court appearances, agencies and children's protection. He was supportive, understanding and said nothing judgemental.

My new manager for the last year has been the absolute opposite he enjoys making snarky little comments during team meetings, which causes the others to join in. They are all those opinions about single mothers, children from broken homes and living in poor neighbourhoods (which I had to do) and average state schools (which the DC's go to) and being really judgemental about these things - it hurts so much. This would often be passed off as Banter, Just-Kidding or don't be sensitive. They would also enjoy long chats about their wives and their "disagreements".

Before lock-down it was easier to handle because I'd go and find someone I liked on another floor or another desk way away from him and the others and have a little natter as a distraction.

During lock-down and wfh it's been hell. I'd have these requests for 1-2-1 or he'd ring me on my personal phone (he's got that number because I had to send him a message one day from it because my workphones battery was dead and he's only every used my personal number since). Ostensibly, it was to check on my health because I'm in a high risk category (actually it was more to talk about his own if he had a cough). The reality was it was to some real passive aggressive intimidation, such as "are you being furloughed?" or "are you being made redundant?" - he's my manager he would know in the first instance. Or to dump his own work on me because he's so busy, Or it would be to moan about his wife and child during lock-down and how he disagreed with what was going on. The distinct lack of empathy was gobsmacking. I'm at home alone, no one to help out or talk to, running 2 school curriculums and squabbles. more work meetings than normal. Working though the night to get my average daily work done and try to meet deadlines and do his as well. Dealing with the weekly calls from the school because although the DC's are no longer on the at risk register, they are still classed as children in need.

My disability has got progressively worse during this period, my doctor has been fantastic but the new meds to help with the tremors have negated the use of my anti anxieties. I was also signed off for a month.

This is where I presently am.

Towards the end of my sick period (my doctor has signed me off again for another month and She's said she'll continue to do so until I'm better), I had a long long chat with my doctor about all of the above and said I was going to resign, citing health and personal issues. This is because I really do not want to get involved with HR about some of the behaviours I've outlined above, because it will end up being the hellish situation where I will have to prove all of this, collect evidence and have to sit through counter allegations and accusations. I know this is not the right thing to do, but I don't have a support network to fall back on and no one to talk to except my doctor or the Samaritans.

I've looked at the financial difficulties and frankly, I've experienced it before thanks to my Ex, so I know how really really really difficult it will be.

Now this is what my issue is. HR have come back and offered me alternative working arrangements so I'm better able to support the DC's and my disability, because I cited those as the reason I was resigning. They've put my resignation on hold and have given me some time to reply. I really appreciate their approach but the truth is I want away from this bunch I work with and the though that I may have to interact with them again makes me feel like throwing up.

I'm just feeling so low, I'm scared to talk to HR in case I let the real reason slip and then they'll want to do something about it and I really can't have that on my plate with everything else. If I take the alternative working arrangement, I'll still be working in the same team with the same people.

I'm just feeling so low, I'm scared to talk to HR in case I let the real reason slip and then they'll want to do something about it

I've read your post from start to finish, it is shocking what you have been put through.

Can you explain what you mean about being scared of talking to HR?

In short, I believe based on what you've said, that you are in an extremely strong position at the moment, and the fact HR have taken your resignation seriously is positive news. Quite frankly they see this as a Discrimination claim in the making, and so they should. Thank goodness there are Laws in place to push on to make them sort this matter out.

Think about what you ideal situation would be, if you could get HR to sort it out for you, which could involve them taking formal action with the perpetrators of the disgusting behaviour against you. I would name and shame them to HR and give them all the details they need to deal with this, so you don't have to.

Also bear in mind, once precedent is set via HR, you have protection if the same behaviour reoccurs in the future. Get them to do their job, you just need to give them the bullets to fire.

Thank you @daisychain01

Why am I scared to talk to HR? In part I don't want to go though the explanations, gather the evidence and have to interact with this lot again.

To be told I've got it all wrong, I've misunderstood, that's not what was said.

The only tangible evidence I have is the call log from my personal phone. When I asked my manager a long while back to use my work phone he just carried on using my personal number until I blocked him.

The two others on my team are just as bad.

I just want to put this behind me and never have to interact with them again. Its not really that I'm scared of HR - I just want to stop living this and don't want to have to think further about it.

What have you got to lose from explaining everything? Either they believe you and place you in a different team and you are away from the bullying or they don't believe you and you leave and you are away from the bullying. Also raising the issues now means that if anyone subsequently has issues there is something on record.

Whilst I can understand your hesitation at the thought of talking to HT, I'm unclear why you would turn down a golden opportunity like this to go back to your job (as you've stated you have financial worries), be protected by HR and have protection against future incidents.

You don't need "evidence", this isn't a criminal case, it's a civil employment situation that currently could be very much in your favour. You just need to provide a factual account of what has happened to date.

In any case if you went back to them and stated your resignation still stands they would accept it, and you'd leave but without having righted the wrongs.

Sorry HR

I don't disagree with anything Daisychain01 has said, but I think I understand the reticence to talk to HR. In the end, I kind of agree with the OP - I would always be somewhat dubious about HR, because their job is to protect the employer, not the employee. It is entirely possible that they already know or suspect that there is another reason, and this offer is exactly that - covering the employers back.

BUT, think about it logically. You are clearly not in the best place right now to be making major decisions about things. They are making this offer, at least ostensibly, knowing nothing, so there is absolutely no reason to say or do anything else. You don't need to tell them. You don't need to provide evidence of anything. You can just go back to work and at the very least try out the new arrangements. That gives you some breathing space.

You probably aren't in a union - so get yourself in one NOW. That means that if this all blows up again you have support and representation - to date you haven't said anything to highlight the trouble, so it will be a "new issue" and the union can represent you.

Plus, the lockdown won't last for ever. Sooner or later things will have to change again. So then you may be in a better place to cope - I'm not suggesting you should have to cope with this sort of thing, but if that is the choice you make, that it your right.

I do agree with Daisychain01 that you ought to report this, but I really do get why you don't want to as well. It isn't all black and white though. HR have given you an opportunity to go for a grey option, and that might be a good idea. In the end, if it doesn't work out, you can still resign. I would hope that you wouldn't - but it's still there.

Don't make life changing decisions when you are struggling and down. You will come to regret them, and you are simply swapping one horrible set of circumstances (you colleagues) for another (poverty).

TBH I think you have nothing to lose to ask HR is you can be assigned a role in a different team, perhaps one that is less stressful even if not paid as well?

You could explain that your previous manager was wonderful and treated you X and the current one is Y and it's unsustainable to work under someone that treats your life as a joke and banters about your personal circumstances.

The worst they can say is no...

Alternatively accept what they have offered you and then start building your case. Every time he asks you to do his work tell him only if he puts it in writing... he will either stop asking you to do it or incriminate himself. Do you not have Microsoft Teams? Every time he rings and ask send an email or message "please confirm you wish me to do x y z? If that is the case The deadline for me doing abc will be missed"

I think it's worth either option as finding a new job in the current circumstances will be very difficult etc.

He's an utter bastard

Thank you @Moondust001 That's very kind and helpful. I've been asked to say what I would like by HR and I haven't responded yet, predominantly because my mental and physical health have plummeted since I spoke with them and haven't had the strength to respond.

They suggested part time, how should i phrase it that that would be acceptable as long as I could work in a different team. That's going to be the hardest part.

Also I know my managers behaviour - he will be seeking revenge and wont let it go he'll see me as an enemy not a dogsbody.

@randommess thank you and @daisychain01 I forgot to say thanks to your previous response.

I feel like I'm stuck between two halfs of me. One agrees with all your saying and goes do it. The other is worn out and just wants to curl up and not think. My meds have been changed to reduce the tremors that I get, the downside is that I've been taken off the anti anxieties. I'm seeing a GP this morning (my regular doctor is on holiday until the end of the month).

I hear everything you've all said and I agree with it... I now have to dig deep and get the strength.

Is there other work you could do within the organisation?

We're here to give you support whatever decision you make, @[AUTO]9h77rke1h9a10. You may find that after thinking about the options, you take up HRs offer to talk about the situation.

If I were you I'd take it one step at a time and 'keep your powder dry' - you are under no obligation to tell HR what your future intentions are. You could get a message to them that "I'm willing to talk", get on a call with them and let them do all the talking. Find out what their mindset is and whether they're tripping over themselves to try to put things right. View things with a skeptical eye, remember they aren't your "friend" but neither are they your enemy.

If you do speak with them and feel willing to share how it goes, feel free to let us know and we might be able to guide you in the next steps.

Think of it like a game of poker, you have the best hand, but you need to keep a poker face going while they inadvertently give their hand away

I thought I might list out some of the issues I've faced over the last year.

Its a tough one to list out and I don't really know how to do it.

There's the frequent references in meetings about single mothers, kids from broken homes and state schools. Its opinionated enough to be painful, but vague enough.

Then there is the stuff about disabilities and in particular people with PIP that then frequently leads to disabled single mothers just taking advantage all the time.

My manager reinvented my position as a "Hybrid One" (never got any paper work from HR about a change in role). This hybrid role meant scheduling all meetings, running the meetings, taking minutes from the meetings allocating work. Being told to take over work where he'd failed to reply to suppliers deadlines and we got penalty clauses (I was given that one the day before the deadline was met), this is one example of three. Having to run all Knowledge Transfer sessions between suppliers and staff. This is all on top of my regular daily work and project work I'm assigned to. Before covid this meant lots of late nights at home. During Covid its just been continuous. I once asked him to stop to which he said I'd better do it because of all the time I waste on my DC's, that was my annual holiday entitlement I was using, the same goes for the medical appointments I've had over the last year.

Then there are the phone calls I mentioned above about Am I being furloughed, Am I being made redundant.

When I've asked for the resource allocation to get my project work done, he assigns it to a colleague because he can get on with it. So I'm either left waiting or have to do it myself taking more time.

Those are the trivial ones, these are some of the harder ones.

The colleague mentioned about is quite difficult. One day he started to use a racial slur - I asked him to stop and never say it again, he threw a big tantrum about his rights to say anything he wants and then stopped answering my emails and messages and wouldn't respond during meetings. This is the one who would book all the resources so I couldn't get on with stuff.

The same colleague has also asked me to buy drugs for him on six or so separate occasions because as he put it to me one day "your ex was an addict, you must know all the dealers".

The other one is very very religious and his doesn't allow mothers to work, so he rarely talks to me.

The one thing that they don't do thankfully is to make sexual comments, in part I think because my manager was brought up on a disciplinary two years ago about making sexual comments and body shaming another colleague who has since left. Now I only know about that because HR interviewed me to find out what I knew and could corroborate my colleagues complaint.

I have to admit writing a lot of this down makes my head spin. It makes me think that I'm mad. A lot of it feels like what my ex put us though as well. In particular the times when I do ask them to stop, I'm being sensitive or I've completely got the wrong end of the stick and that's not what they are saying.

Thank you for letting me brain dump this stuff as I've said I don't really have anyone to talk to or bounce this off to get my head around what's going on.

Perhaps HR suspect he is bullying you and there have been other complaints?

Is there other work you could do in the organisation?

I would be telling HR that you would need part time hours that would be strictly adhered to such as 9am-1pm and you are not expected to work etc and work must be given to you with appropriate and realistic deadlines.

Ideally I would be asking to work in a completely different team as "their workload is much more suited to part time hours"

It sounds like this is all payback for you supporting your colleague?

You could mention that he has used racial and disabling slurs and it would be best for him if you worked else were.

He could at least be forced to do equality and unconscious bias training 😂😂😂

@RandomMess I've had a think about what you've said and from past experiences of what I've seen happen, it wouldn't take long before it all starts up again but from a distance, if I moved to a different team.

Its not that I don't have confidence in HR dealing with it professionally and properly. I don't feel confident that my manager could see that he has actually done anything wrong and I think you might be right about payback and the thought of more fills me with dread.

Its a week today since HR contacted me and another 20 days until my sick note ends. I think I'll compose something over the weekend.

Its also something that the DC's have said to me as well. Since I've been off sick I've been much less snappy.

An important aspect of the process is not only to give examples of discriminatory behaviour but to clarify to HR how it made you feel.

This would map into a (potential) Tribunal award where Discrimination includes a financial £value for Injury to Feeling, as it is recognised under the Equality Act (2010) that targeted Discriminatory comments (whether direct or obtuse, to enable the perpetrator to shrug it off "it was only a joke" "have you lost your sense of humour") are offensive, cause shame and embarrassment etc. So being specific in your account to HR gives them the message that this was discrimination and you have been badly affected by it.

• inappropriate, offensive and judgemental generalisations expressed in business meetings about single mothers, kids from broken homes and state schools.

Effect on me :- Manager A deliberately made me feel humiliated, embarrassed and singled out as someone to feel ashamed as I am myself a single parent which he knows.

• Insulting judgemental comments stated publicly with me and my colleagues present about how people with disabilities drawing PIP benefits are taking advantage of the system, especially disabled single mothers

Effect on me : I felt embarrassed, humiliated and ashamed as I am a single mother with a disability. I should not have to be confronted with this level of discriminatory insult in the workplace and Manager A frequently abused his position of seniority and power to say whatever he wanted in my presence as barbed comments he knew directly related to me.

These are two examples of the format you can use to create maximum impact.

You can also have a heading called "Job Role - Scope and Responsibilities" to summarise the lack of clarity in the additional responsibilities given to you without due consideration or consultation.

You definitely need to remind HR that this Manager already has form for Discrimination and clearly has not taken on board any repercussions from the disciplinary actions against him two years ago about making sexual comments and body shaming a colleague who has since left the organisation.

I hope this gives you a good basis for discussion.

You are not over-sensitive, and you are not imagining any of this. It is absolutely disgraceful he hasn't been sacked, and this should hopefully be sufficient for him to be dismissed.

Bearing in mind that my "first choice" advice would always be to submit a grievance, and there is still the opportunity (assuming you can live with all this for a bit longer) to join a union and then use some time to collect evidence for a grievance "as a new issue" (since you haven't already raised it)….

I do understand where you are coming from because this is the real world and not some nice version of it where all the systems in place to protect people from detriment work. It's a cleft stick for you - raise it and you are possibly only inviting worse to come; or don't and let it continue. Or end up without any income and resign. I really can see why the latter option seems temporarily attractive. But I know, and so do you, that regardless of the nasty intent behind those comments about single mothers on benefits and children opportunities, they are actually true. Give up your work, depend on benefits, and your, and your childrens, lives are impacted on. Children from workless households ARE less likely to succeed in all sorts of areas of life. People who are out of work DO have worse health outcomes and shorter life expectancy. I won't list all the disbenefits of quitting - I work with the impacts of unemployment on families every day, so I can literally write the essay! You don't need the lecture, I know.

So you can try to get another job, but now is not the time for that I think. You can resign, which I think is a very bad idea, but you must do what you must do. You can talk to HR and tell them the truth - or live with it for now, join a union, and do that once your union membership is fully active. Or - and I want to be clear that I am not suggesting in a any way that you are being too sensitive - you can either develop a thicker skin and shrug it off, or hit back and stand up for yourself.

I am not one to condone bullying (nor do I think that absolutely everything that people don't like is bullying). But bullies are savvy at picking their victims. I have never once been subjected to bullying. Which isn't to say that occasionally someone has been daft enough to try. But their attempt has been short-lived and not pleasant (for them). Because my response has always been to tackle bad behaviour head on. And bullies have a tendency to run when that happens. Standing up for yourself might be hard, but it is another option.

Now I am not saying you should do any one of these things. But whatever you do you need to commit to that option. And you need to not make things worse. I know that walking away feels like it won't make things worse. But like I said, it will simply be another version of bad, not an improvement. So rushing into things is not wise.

If I am being honest - I do think you ought to tell HR the whole truth, including why you are scared to tell them and why you think they'll "get you later" if you do. But without a union that will be a hard option - unfortunately legal advice for people such as yourself is not free, and so there is nobody to help you fight your corner. So I'd be inclined to take the "try to live with it in the short term and join a union" option. If for no other reason than that if you have to walk away, they might be able to help you walk away with some money.

I don't often say this, because I absolutely hate people who play the disability card, or any other card without real reason (and I am also disabled and in receipt of PIP), but your disability is leverage for a good rep. Disability discrimination claims are expensive to defend. Very expensive. And if someone has good evidence, settling is wise.

And you know, it is remarkable how often smart phones accidentally record stuff....

PS - cross posted with Daisychain, but I also agree!

Disability discrimination claims are expensive to defend. Very expensive. And if someone has good evidence, settling is wise.

Indeed, @Moondust001 and a powerful weapon can be that Sword of Damocles hanging over HR, just to be presented with everything formalised in a document by @[AUTO]9h77rke1h9a10

I'm not saying it will be straightforward, but what gives a reasonable amount of hope in this instance is that

1. the Manager already has form for this shit, they've reverted to type and the OP can very much use this knowledge in their favour ;
2. the OP hasn't needed to go to HR, they have come to the OP, which IME means they are trying for damage limitation.
3. The OP confirms the Manager's actions directly impact on them. Sadly too often on here people want to pull in additional information about the impact on others, which weakens their case, because the only relevant thing is how it impacts them personally, other people don't count in these circumstances (unless of course they decide to submit a joint statement but this too can all fall apart, if Person 2 subsequently decides to back down, leaving Person 1 on their own).

It's now a question of the OP standing firm and being confident in relaying the specifics of what the Manager has done.

I do hope you don't resign @[AUTO]9h77rke1h9a10 why should you lose your job and livelihood over this.

That Manager should be the one to be marched off site, you should be supported after everything you've been through.

Oh Wow! @Moondust001 & @daisychain01 you are both fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time with your considered replies.

Earlier today I had a call from the head of division asking after my health which was nice and he relayed the senior management are also concerned about my health and reiterated that they and HR would like me to retract and consider alternatives. I think he was shocked by the candour in which I spoke about it.

After speaking with my GP yesterday and being off the meds for the tremors, (its MS btw) for 36 hours now my mood has improved and I feel like I could stand up to this now and especially after reading your two posts. Thank you so much for your kindness and time.

Candour in which I spoke about my mental health, the effects of the low mood

If they are communicating with you by phone or Skype, I would record everything.

You may not be able to use the actual recordings but you can transcribe everything into written form, such as any commitments and promises they make you, so you can hold their feet to the fire if they let you down on their promises. It sounds like the Managers interacting with you now are decent people, but you can never be too cautious.

It would be great if they give you full protection against this person, better still, they dismiss him.

And don’t forget to join a union.

by phone. i think what i will do is ask to speak with the CEO and CHRO and outline the "disfunctions" and leave it open ended, not raise a grievance (yet). They do both know me and know that I'm open and honest and hold myself accountable.

At the same time have a document prepared with as much information on times places and events.

How does that sound?

Sounds good. Definitely have the specifics ready to discuss. Don't hold back in terms of being candid and emphatic in your rejection of this person's treatment of you. Don't lose the opportunity for them to realise that he is a liability and that they would do well to consider his position.

Be bold and brave, you can do it!